McCain frightens me!!!

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06-02-2008, 07:01 AM
Bruno

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMS

Great Nations do not become great by depending on the honesty of other Nations!
Each Nation that wishes to survive has it's own intelligence agency and will check and double check every scrap of information that they see and receive! Even our Nations so called friends spy on us! Nothing is left to chance!

We did, and that is why noone supported the war in Iraq, and why everybody supported the war in Afghanistan.

And everybody is spying on everybody else. It's part of the great game. And it is arguably even more important to spy on allies than on enemies.
Everybody knows not to trust North Korea, and NK makes their position perfectly clear beyond ambiguity.

But what is the US going to do regarding some UN proposal or other, or Russia, or does the UK really...
the list is endless. If Belgium isn't spying on all major players, it is probably because we don't have the resources. I know for a fact that we are aware of being spied on by China, and I assume we have a program in place to at least try to know what is being spied on.
All the major players are psying on all the others. In a way it's not a bad thing. the more we know about each other, the less likely it is that there will be great surprises triggering unconsidered reactions.
06-02-2008, 07:03 AM
Nickelking

Then how do you explain that the UN at the time fell prey to a proposal that was contradictory to the opinions of our state department as well as the CIA at the time? It's been well documented that the executive branch demanded the results that were presented to the UN from those departments, and while it contradicted the NIE such results were produced as a hypothetical under pressure.

edit: Even Colin Powell has said that the evidence he provided to the UN was false, there is no support for the argument to go to war using hindsight. I dont blame the rest of the UN for accepting our false evidence, but I do blame our administration for providing it.
06-02-2008, 07:04 AM
JMS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickelking

Then how do you explain that the UN at the time fell prey to a proposal that was contradictory to the opinions of our state department as well as the CIA at the time? It's been well documented that the executive branch demanded the results that were presented to the UN from those departments, and while it contradicted the NIE such results were produced as a hypothetical under pressure.

Be specific!
06-02-2008, 07:17 AM
Nickelking

check out the documentqary I linked earlier, if you'd rather not it's sufficient to say that the administration was pushing for a link when none could be found... when the cia couldn't find a link, they pressured the state dept, when they couldn't find one they pressured the middle range of the executive branch to manipulate the data to find a link. after enough pressure and threatening to cut off aommunication between the state and all other branches colin powell reluctantly agreed. he has since renounced such association.now that the NIE from that date has been declassified there should be no coubt that there was never a question of Iraq obtaining WMDs.

We didn't even have proof at the time, read the declassified NIE. The fact that other countries didn't believe so is evident in the fact that we had to convince them of the "smoking gun." The US instigated a war under false pretence. I hate to say it, but the facts say it is so.
06-02-2008, 07:31 AM
gugi

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMS

We did not go in alone...

Ah, can't resist it. My country is in the coalition of the willing.... and Poland too, don't forget Poland! The reason why other countries went to Iraq with US has very little to do with whether they believed US is justified to do it. The US administration had decided that they are doing it no matter what, even if it means they'll make up an excuse. We'll probably never know how really Bush convinced Blair to join, but no doubt they figured out it is in their interest. Just like my country having about 2billion debt by Iraq had to either be willing, or forever forget about that money.

Anyways, Mark, does McCain still frighten you, or you're over that now :)?
06-02-2008, 07:38 AM
Nickelking

Quote:

Originally Posted by gugi

Ah, can't resist it. My country is in the coalition of the willing.... and Poland too, don't forget Poland! The reason why other countries went to Iraq with US has very little to do with whether they believed US is justified to do it. The US administration had decided that they are doing it no matter what, even if it means they'll make up an excuse. We'll probably never know how really Bush convinced Blair to join, but no doubt they figured out it is in their interest. Just like my country having about 2billion debt by Iraq had to either be willing, or forever forget about that money.

Anyways, Mark, does McCain still frighten you, or you're over that now :)?

And don't forget "you're either with us or against us," What country at that point in time would want to risk running afoul of the US?
06-02-2008, 07:40 AM
JMS

Quote:

Originally Posted by gugi

Anyways, Mark, does McCain still frighten you, or you're over that now :)?

He frightens me like coyotes frighten me! Not so much for myself, but for the damage that they can do if not kept in check! ( Especially if they are wearing goats clothing!:D)
We know who Clinton and Obama are, but McCain, not so much!
06-02-2008, 07:44 AM
gugi

No worries, then - send me your goats and i'll take care of them, just make sure to check McCain isn't included.
But now I'm confused again :thinking: I thought it was Rudy who liked to wear unusual attire :p
06-02-2008, 07:48 AM
Nickelking

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMS

He frightens me like coyotes frighten me! Not so much for myself, but for the damage that they can do if not kept in check! ( Especially if they are wearing goats clothing!:D)
We know who Clinton and Obama are, but McCain, not so much!

That's my main thing he changes positions like I change socks. Maybe moreso... I don't change my socks as often
06-02-2008, 07:56 AM
JMS

Hear is a rare video of McCain telling the Republicans, and more specifically the conservatives that he is his own man, beholden to nobody or no idea:YouTube - Klaus Nomi - You don't own me
06-02-2008, 08:01 AM
Jimbo

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMS

Hear is a rare video of McCain telling the Republicans, and more specifically the conservatives that he is his own man, beholden to nobody or no idea:....

Geez - I had the *completely* wrong idea about conservative politics in the US. Looks like your republicans follow the UK conservative model...

James.
06-02-2008, 08:08 AM
Nickelking

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMS

Hear is a rare video of McCain telling the Republicans, and more specifically the conservatives that he is his own man, beholden to nobody or no idea:

ok, you'e got me on the verge o voting McCain! :)
06-02-2008, 08:10 AM
JMS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickelking

ok, you'e got me on the verge o voting McCain! :)

If you didn't watch it to the end then you missed McCain's falsetto!:eek::roflmao:eek:
06-02-2008, 08:15 AM
Nickelking

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMS

If you didn't watch it to the end then you missed McCain's falsetto!:eek::roflmao:eek:

no... the falsetto is what got me... he sings a better woman's part than hillary! :roflmao

Edit: that song is from hedwig and the angry inch right? it's bugging me.
06-02-2008, 08:25 AM
JMS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickelking

no... the falsetto is what got me... he sings a better woman's part than hillary! :roflmao

Edit: that song is from hedwig and the angry inch right? it's bugging me.

"You Don't Own Me." written in 1963 by Leslie Gore.
Covered by my buddy Klaus in the 80's I believe.
06-02-2008, 08:27 AM
gugi

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMS

"You Don't Own Me." written in 1963 by Leslie Gore.
Covered by my buddy Klaus in the 80's I believe.

Yeah, apparently a favorite of Rush Limbaugh too :)
06-02-2008, 08:30 AM
JMS

Quote:

Originally Posted by gugi

Yeah, apparently a favorite of Rush Limbaugh too :)

Who is this Rush fellow you speak of?:shrug:;):D
06-02-2008, 08:34 AM
Nickelking

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMS

"You Don't Own Me." written in 1963 by Leslie Gore.
Covered by my buddy Klaus in the 80's I believe.

And that song isn't listed on IMDB as a one of the songs... odd as when I heard it here I immediatly attached it with that show.

Moral of the story: check IMDB!
06-02-2008, 08:50 AM
gugi

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMS

Who is this Rush fellow you speak of?:shrug:;):D

Yeah I know, I wouldn't want to be associated with him either :p
Or Rev. Wright, or Rev Hagee, for that matter.... See, it's way too early here on the EST, I'm mixing all political threads in one...

NK, I can see how you may confuse it with hedwig - the period, the locations... although hedwig is a period recreation, while Klaus Nomi is the real thing, uhm I mean was, complete with dying of AIDS in early 80s. Along these lines few years ago Neil Jordan's made a movie 'Breakfast on Pluto', check it out if you didn't see it :)

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