Thread: McCain frightens me!!!

Originally Posted by Nickelking

Basically they trusted us, and we breached that trust.

Great Nations do not become great by depending on the honesty of other Nations!
Each Nation that wishes to survive has it's own intelligence agency and will check and double check every scrap of information that they see and receive! Even our Nations so called friends spy on us! Nothing is left to chance!

If only the current UN had held to that ideal.

Originally Posted by Nickelking

If only the current UN had held to that ideal.

The UN as directed under Kofi Anon may very well be that naive, but the majority of the Nations that populate the UN are not, and would've seen such a scenario as you suggest from a mile away!

Then how do you explain that the UN at the time fell prey to a proposal that was contradictory to the opinions of our state department as well as the CIA at the time? It's been well documented that the executive branch demanded the results that were presented to the UN from those departments, and while it contradicted the NIE such results were produced as a hypothetical under pressure.

edit: Even Colin Powell has said that the evidence he provided to the UN was false, there is no support for the argument to go to war using hindsight. I dont blame the rest of the UN for accepting our false evidence, but I do blame our administration for providing it.

Originally Posted by Nickelking

Then how do you explain that the UN at the time fell prey to a proposal that was contradictory to the opinions of our state department as well as the CIA at the time? It's been well documented that the executive branch demanded the results that were presented to the UN from those departments, and while it contradicted the NIE such results were produced as a hypothetical under pressure.

Be specific!

check out the documentqary I linked earlier, if you'd rather not it's sufficient to say that the administration was pushing for a link when none could be found... when the cia couldn't find a link, they pressured the state dept, when they couldn't find one they pressured the middle range of the executive branch to manipulate the data to find a link. after enough pressure and threatening to cut off aommunication between the state and all other branches colin powell reluctantly agreed. he has since renounced such association.now that the NIE from that date has been declassified there should be no coubt that there was never a question of Iraq obtaining WMDs.

We didn't even have proof at the time, read the declassified NIE. The fact that other countries didn't believe so is evident in the fact that we had to convince them of the "smoking gun." The US instigated a war under false pretence. I hate to say it, but the facts say it is so.

Originally Posted by JMS

Great Nations do not become great by depending on the honesty of other Nations!
Each Nation that wishes to survive has it's own intelligence agency and will check and double check every scrap of information that they see and receive! Even our Nations so called friends spy on us! Nothing is left to chance!

We did, and that is why noone supported the war in Iraq, and why everybody supported the war in Afghanistan.

And everybody is spying on everybody else. It's part of the great game. And it is arguably even more important to spy on allies than on enemies.
Everybody knows not to trust North Korea, and NK makes their position perfectly clear beyond ambiguity.

But what is the US going to do regarding some UN proposal or other, or Russia, or does the UK really...
the list is endless. If Belgium isn't spying on all major players, it is probably because we don't have the resources. I know for a fact that we are aware of being spied on by China, and I assume we have a program in place to at least try to know what is being spied on.
All the major players are psying on all the others. In a way it's not a bad thing. the more we know about each other, the less likely it is that there will be great surprises triggering unconsidered reactions.