Another sad sign of the times.......

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

as long as we insist on treating students as "clients", our education standards will continue to decline in this country.

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Amazing - are you a mind reader? That's what I was thinking too, when I considered what is different now.

Oh, and I am very much with Alan on the unsubstantiated statements. My usual problem with this kind of articles is that even when they see fit to give an example or two these are just selected to make you form a general opinion on a subject based on just these few examples, which may as well be the few exceptions. Very shallow article in my book.

I was also wondering why would students/parents not care. I mean it seems to me in US enough people care to go to college, even better if it's a good one. That's because it improves their chances for better job with higher pay. Surely it's got to be not the form but the content that's important, although perhaps the few success stories at the tail of the curve when somebody prospers despite the lack of solid education are swaying people's opinion. I mean US is the land of opportunity and pragmatism - you don't need to know anything about Hung'ry or Turkey to make 6-7 digit salary. It really doesn't matter as much as it does in countries with more rigid class system.

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Originally Posted by azjoe

:td

<end of rant>

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Here, here. I can't count the number in the parade of near idiots that have entered the workforce and expect to immediately be given a great job...all because they have never been held accountable, because mommy and daddy told them that they are more special than everyone else. The real problem is mommy and daddy can't be bothered to participate in their kids education...as one parent told me once "Isn't that the school's job?"
:cen

An earlier response was that Americans don't care and then an attempt was made to mark it up to society changing...well, if you consider decay and atrophy a positive change, then I guess that would be correct. If Americans are going to participate in the 21st Century and be successful, then it is time to stop riding on the achievements of previous generations and educate yourself about the world of which we area part. Why? Because a person from that country you don't care about and can't find on a map just got your job.

The economy is global, more so than ever before in mankind's history and if we do not want to be left behind, we need to stop worrying about whom to blame for the problems and work on defining and implementing solutions. When graduates of US High Schools can't find their own state on a map or can't identify the leaders of the United States when shown their pictures, it is time to start worrying. It's not just basic academics, but critical thinking, analysis, speaking. We are now seeing the kids of the first collection of under-achievers who were pushed through the education system being pushed through with even lower standards.

That weeping sound you hear is from the graves of Jefferson, Franklin, and Lincoln......

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/...in530872.shtml
http://www.workforce.com/section/00/.../24/85/87.html
http://www.act.org/news/releases/2007/05-15-07.html
This one is from 1989! http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...51C0A96F948260
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...301302_pf.html

:shrug:

I didn't mean to say that not caring was ok. On the contrary, I think complacency is one of the most dangerous mindsets. It helps no one but your competitors and enemies.

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Originally Posted by JMS

I find it extraordinarily sad and disgusting that anyone would find this poor womans lack of smarts entertaining, let alone trying to boost ones image by comparison!
AZJoe, I am with you on this as far as discipline goes!

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I certainly hope no one found it entertaining....it was nauseating in the extreme...and compounded by the fact she has a national platform which (unfortunately) has a huge audience - American Idol.

What message is it sending that you can be a dumb as a bag of hair, but get media celebrity and fame? Another in a long list of causes for what is coming out of schools today.

:rant:

lighten up guys...

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Originally Posted by WireBeard

Shhhhhh....listen closely...you can hear the brain cells dying.......

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I thought this was particularly callous! It gave me the impression that you not only found it entertaining but that you might be using this poor womans lack of sharps to make yourself look all that sharper!

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Originally Posted by gugi

Amazing - are you a mind reader? That's what I was thinking too, when I considered what is different now.

Oh, and I am very much with Alan on the unsubstantiated statements. My usual problem with this kind of articles is that even when they see fit to give an example or two these are just selected to make you form a general opinion on a subject based on just these few examples, which may as well be the few exceptions. Very shallow article in my book.

I was also wondering why would students/parents not care. I mean it seems to me in US enough people care to go to college, even better if it's a good one. That's because it improves their chances for better job with higher pay. Surely it's got to be not the form but the content that's important, although perhaps the few success stories at the tail of the curve when somebody prospers despite the lack of solid education are swaying people's opinion. I mean US is the land of opportunity and pragmatism - you don't need to know anything about Hung'ry or Turkey to make 6-7 digit salary. It really doesn't matter as much as it does in countries with more rigid class system.

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This issue is not the system, but the content and application. Also, I am sure that the book in question will provide a dizzying array of sources supporting the general lack of education.

Sadly, with the stress on schools to "push" students through (and some universities as well), having a degree doesn't mean you can apply what you have learned. If earning a 6-7 figure salary is your only concern in life, then you can learn just what you need to get by. If you want to be able to hold an intelligent conversation about something other than your job, then there may be a problem. The form isn't important...but the content is. How you learn facts and information doesn't matter, if you can apply it. The problem is not tha every US citizen is not a poet laureate or nuclear physicist - the problem is people who can't make change, who can't give directions, who can't think analytically...people who are ignorant of the origins of this nation...so much so that when the foundations are challenged, they don't even recognize it.

As far as pragmatism, I like being able to look on a map and know where current events are occurring....especially if my family members may be sent there as risk to their own lives.

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Originally Posted by JMS

I thought this was particularly callous! It gave me the impression that you not only found it entertaining but that you might be using this poor womans lack of sharps to make yourself look all that sharper!

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I was referring to the brains cells of the US populace in general. If anything, the YouTube should have a disclaimer for non-US viewers, telling them that we are all not this clueless.

And what's with the "poor woman" comments? She is not stupid or unintelligent or mentally incapacitated. She was obviously sharp enough to get onto American Idol; she is ignorant...a condition that is easily remedied by opening a book.

There is no shame in being ignorant, only in remaining so.

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Originally Posted by gugi

lighten up guys...

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:roflmao:roflmao:roflmao

Sooooooooo true....now I want to cry.

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Originally Posted by denmason

... and we still debate about many things.

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Amen! A parent that actually talks to their kid beyond "How was school?" I owe you an alcoholic beverage of your choice, should we ever meet!

:bow:bow:bow

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Originally Posted by denmason

I can always come up with things that I learned in school, and that he has never been taught. Shocks me every time.

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Frightening, isn't it?