Drummers: What is a "Backbeat"?

[ChrisL]

What exactly is a backbeat when referencing Bohham's drumming or drumming in general? Can you name a Zep song or even the part of a Zep song where a Backbeat is easy to identify?

Weird question, but I'm bored and I've never known the answer.

Thanks

Chris L

[xman]

The back beat is the off or contrapuntal beat, opposite to the down beat. I think the easiest way to describe it is that it's the 'and' part of counting like so;
one-AND-two-AND-three-AND-four.
depending on how recessed or retarded in the tempo, the tune is said to have more or less "swing" to it.

If I'm not mistaken, The Ocean has a very interesting back beat which can be heard as the high hat hit, interesting because the song is in 7/8 time and the back beat seems to switch with the down beat.

X

[Detach]

going off of xman i believe syncopation is the word but yes, it does produce a swing feel.

[matthewh]

After typing a whole geek fest on the history of the backbeat and how it came to be, I decided to delete it and give you the short (but still probably longer than neccessary) answer.

Simply put, the backbeat is beats 2 and 4 of a 4/4 measure. It's called the backbeat (or after beat) because, classically speaking, beat 1 of the measure is the stongest in terms of pulse. Beat 2, (after beat 1 hence the name after beat) has less emphasis (less emphasis roughly = in the background, hence the name backbeat.) The third downbeat has more emphasis than 2 but less than 1, and beat 4 is pretty much the same as 2.

This is the "old, old wooden ship" way of thinking about music. I don't know how much of this way of thinking is still engrained in the subconsious of modern peoples musical understanding. On a tangent, having lived in the US for the first 25 years of my life, and in the UK for the past 2, I have begun to wonder whether the backbeat is second nature only to people with predominantly US musical roots. The reason I question this is because I've noticed that people in the UK nearly always clap along to music on all 4 downbeats whereas most of the audiences I can remember clapping along to music in the US clap to the backbeat... It intrigues me, but back on task...

In modern music that fits into the backbeat realm, the snare drum is playing the backbeat with emphasis, and at least as much emphasis as beats 1 and 3, which are usually played on the bass drum in a simple drum beat. That's why its called backbeat music, because the 2 and 4 are so strong.

I don't agree with xman's definition. To me, the backbeat doesn't have anything to do with the upbeats, the and's ONE-and-TWO-and-THREE-and-FOUR-and." The backbeat is all about 2 and 4. It can get confusing at higher tempos because it's often easier to count the subdivisions at a slower rate than the actual tempo. This shift will make the two sound like it's the and. Regarding The Ocean, the opening is a two bar phrase - the first bar is 4/4 (snare on the 2 and 4 backbeat and the and of 4) and the second bar is 7/8 (snare always on 2 and then with some other accents I can't remember to fill out the bar). It stays in 4/4 for the verse I believe after that.

The reason people talk about John Bonham having a backbeat that feels so great is because he never played it as straight as the above regimented counting would produce. John Bonham grew up with swinging jazz and blues so when he started making his own music in the strongly accented backbeat world of rock music, those early influences had to come out. He had a great swing feel and a great shuffle feel in his backbeat playing. A good example of shuffle influenced backbeat playing is the song Fool in the Rain from the 1979 album In Through the Out Door . Technically speaking it's a half-time shuffle, but if you key in on the snare drum accents (the ghost notes are non-essential but they are wonderful decorations) they are on the 2 and 4 of the measure - the glorious backbeat.

Explaining why swing swings and shuffles shuffle involves delving into polyrhythms and the history of drumset drumming. That was where I originally started before I deleted it as mentioned at the beginning, but I can geek it all out for whoever's interested, but not until tomorrow...

I hope this post makes some sense.

[Wildtim]

Its geeked out enough for someone like me who can't clap in time but very cool to know. Thanks :

[xman]

My bad then.

[Philadelph]

going off of xman i believe syncopation is the word but yes, it does produce a swing feel.

I have to disagree with X and Detach here or even Matt if he agrees with the above. Sure there are times when it can produce a swing or shuffle feel, but it is by no means the rule. There are many other factors that go into that. Basically a drum pattern can have a heavy backbeat rhythm and still feel as straight as possible.

For some more technical reading: Back beat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[icedog]

Backbeat, Back Beat, How to play backbeat

[holli4pirating]

It's when the word is on the street that the fire in your heart is out.

...Just out of curiosity, did anyone else make that connection?

[majurey]

I've got no kick against modern jazz,
Unless they try to play it too darn fast.
And lose the beauty of the melody,
Until they sound just like a symphony.

That's why I go for that rock and roll music,
Any old way you choose it.
It's got a back beat, you can't blues it,
Any old time you use it.
It's gotta be rock and roll music,
If you wanna dance with me.

I don't know if it's coincidence or intended, but that Beatles tune definitely has emphasis on beats two and four: one-Two-three-Four all the way through. So, it's got a backbeat (you can't blues it)?