English is a dominate language for a reason. We adapt any word from any culture if it suits the occasion and purpose. There is no more efficient or exact language than English. Language is the bond that hold a country together. There is support for this just north of the border. I do not know the present state of affairs in Canada but it was not long ago that there was a movement in Quebec to split from Canada.
Later,
Richard
I'm glad he won that fight. Its about time. The "melting pot" that is always pointed to requires new arrivals to melt - or become one with the rest. It does not mean staying separate or imposing your language. This has always involved learning to speak english and going on to partake in the "American Dream".
Having said that, I'm a native speaker of English and I don't really know the language of ordering a cheesteak there! Cheesteak Wit, wit-out, etc ;)
Jordan
True, a federal law has not been passed to date.... but over half the states have laws essentially making English their official language.;) It's certainly been at issue for a long time... English became part of the requirement for citizenship over 100 years ago, and Presidents have campaigned for it...Quote:
Originally Posted by DemonsDanceAlone
"We have room for but one language in this country, and that is the English language, for we intend to see that the crucible turns our people out as Americans, of American nationality, and not as dwellers in a polyglot boarding house."... T Roosevelt
Although not in a religious sense, I wonder if this issue is symbolic as America's tower of Babel? As a nation, the US certainly has more than enough difficulty communicating in one language, let alone hundreds.
I guess some see English-only as a form of bigotry and discrimination... others see it as a unifying force. My take is the latter. When I encounter someone who is having difficulty getting along in our country because of their lack of English skill, I assist them in resolving their problem in English, for that prepares them better for their next challenges. It seems to me that those that would assist them in their native tongues are the true bigots. While assistance of that nature seemingly is more efficient in resolving the immediate problem, it certainly does nothing to prepare them for the next challenge they encounter... effectively keeping the non-English speaker at a disadvantage.
This whole argument is funny. The guy was on a local radio show the other day(I live just outside Philly). He's a typical Philly guy.
I just love the people who say "That sign is offensive to non-English speakers!" How'd they find out what the sign says? They had someone tell them, or they had something to translate. If you got that far, you can go the 2 steps further to order a "Steak, with, no onions".
For those of you who say it discourages tourism, I encourage you to come to the city and visit for a weekend. Meet the people. You'll find that the owner of this place embodies the typical Philly attitude.
Need an example? When T.O. got hurt during a football game against the Eagles, the ENTIRE STADIUM stood up and cheered. Not because he gave the thumbs-up or anything, but because HE WAS HURT.
With all of that said, I support this guy. If you can read the sign enough to be offended, you should be able to order in English anyway, so what's the problem? A side note that may not be in that article: the person who originally caused the fuss was a regular at this business. On top of that, the sign was up for nearly 9 months before anyone cared to make a comment on it. What's that tell you?
As I said.. My take is that if you want to live in a country, you need to speak at least one of the official languages. My grandma, who only came over for visits, while she spoke fluent French, knew that English was the dominant language in this part of Ontario, so she took the free ESL courses that local community centres offer.
When I am at a Chinese restaurant in Ontario, I don't write combo numbers down. I ask for a server that speaks English.
However, as a temporary visitor, I don't feel the obligation to learn the official language of every country I visit. I just pass through some countries while driving to another destination or am stuck for a day due to a delayed flight or I could just be vacationing for a week. Under those circumstances, I have absolutely zero moral qualms about using one or more of the languages that I already speak, with a lot of pointing and a gesturing to make a purchase.
Funny how many replies inferred the problem is related to spanish-speaking people. Hmmm...
Aside from that, if the business doesn't turn away people who can't speak english and the sign is only there for people who can, I just can't help wondering exactly how many english speaking customers elect not to speak english and opt to order in another language-what, just for kicks? because they're "too damn lazy" to order in english? I'm sure there must be a gazillion customers who arrogantly order in another language when they could just have easily ordered in english, right.
Look-I'm not in favor of the proprietor of this business being subject to any legal sanctions, just so long as there's no real discrimination involved. But the larger point here is that there's a simmering (boiling over?) undertone about "those people" not speaking "our language", which I find distasteful. Unless someone is over at Geno's Steaks taking a poll, no one has any idea whatsoever whether the people to whom the sign presumably applies are tourists here for a week; or immigrants who just arrived and are in the process of trying to learn english; etc. The sign is rude. When I've traveled abroad I didn't "expect" a waiter or newspaper salesman to talk to me in english, but it was always appreciated when someone who was able to, helped me to buy a newspaper, or order some food, by telling me what the menu said, etc. The business in question is a business-what is the "skin off their nose" if someone who isn't fully conversant in english asks for "fromage" or "queso" on their steak sandwich? It makes perfect business sense if you can sell more cheese steaks by knowing a few key words, as opposed to alienating customers with the kind of attitude exhibited by this particular establishment.
There are way too many people in this country that feel threatened by nothing more than the language some other people utilize. And by the way, it is NOT true to say that 50% of the states have enacted laws making english their official language. And there is nothing in the constitution mandating english as the official language of the US.
Whenever I travel overseas, I always try to speak the local language.
Who am I to demand they speak English when I am in Germany or Spain?
I think this got blown way out of proportion by the PC nazis.
Oh, and for those who are unfamiliar with the location, South Philly is far from being the cultural mecca in Philadelphia.
It's dirty, overcrowded, and you can't find parking anywhere.
They triple park in S. Philly. Not double, TRIPLE.
Besides, only tourists buy into the idea that you have to go there to get a great cheesesteak.
On just about every corner in Philly is either a bar or a pizza shop.
Everything he said is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by F16WarBird
I think this whole thing comes down to one point: People getting offended when someone asks them to speak the primary language of the land. Look, to properly exist in this nation, you NEED to know English. Is it really inappropriate for a proprietor to ask that his customers speak that language? What if none of his staff spoke other languages? He even said in an interview that if you're having trouble they'll help you out.
It seems to me that he is just asking for an effort from those customers who can't speak English, and stating that if you come up and ask for a steak in Spanish or Dutch or Swahili, the workers will just stare back at you like you have 4 heads.
I love how he said that if he lost the argument, he would have boarded up the place. It would have RUINED a huge tourist trap in the city, as Pat's Steaks and Gino's Steaks are known as the place to go for tourists when they visit.
So do we demand all proprietors know basic keywords in every language that they might encounter in order to properly wait on customers who don't care to learn those same few key words in the predominant language of the land?Quote:
Originally Posted by billyjeff2
Seems kinda outrageous if you ask me. Your opinion may (in this case, OBVIOUSLY) differ though. We should make everyone speak every language! That way everyone feels welcome! Right?
No "Hmmmm" about it. This is clearly not directed at German (or pick a country) tourists. The sign is expressing frustration about hispanic immigration and encroachment of the Spanish language. This guy is putting out there what a lot of people are thinking, but are afraid to say for fear of being called a bigot....Quote:
Originally Posted by billyjeff2
Unless, of course there is a specific back story that I haven't heard - as Kasperitis indicated....
Jordan