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Well since there seem to be so many guys into guns here I thought I'd see if I could get some pointers on buying a handgun. I've been thinking about it for a while and was considering getting something in .45 caliber. Just thought I'd see if any of you guys could provide any recommendations for a gun, maybe good place to buy it. It'd be mainly for home defense type of thing I don't do much shooting usually.
I love my Encore in .450 Marlin :D Oh wait.... Well it is a .45 cal :D :D :D
Nothing beats a good 'ole Model 1911.....I own a Kimber (which isn't cheap) but much less expensive ones can be had from a variety of other manufacturers.
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h1.../MyGuns012.jpg
First check your local gun laws. Hawaii is one of the most restrictive states so you might have a limited selection.
Most ly the best suggestion is to go out shooting. I personally hate some guns that other people love, and others hate my favorites. So it really comes down to the personal feel of the weapon.
How I pick a gun is by feel. I first off want one the feels like a part of my hand, it just has to fit right. then it has to have the controls in an easily reachable position, I don't expect their use to be instinctual (I train for that) but I need to be able to reach and manipulate all of them. Then it comes down to balance. In a safe direction I actually close my eyes and then bring the gun to where I think I'm on target, then I open my eyes, all my favorites are on target when I do this. In other words they balance right for me and naturally come into line with my eye. Its been down to this test for several picks both for me and my wife, and we alway have picked the gun we shoot the best by doing this. After we buy the gun it gets about five hundred rounds run through it at the range, and must shoot all of them without mechanical hick-up before the gun is considered suitable to defend me and mine.
As an example I can't hit much with a Glock, or a 1911 style, they just don't work well for me though they are the ideal for many . The Sig line and the Browning 9mm both seem to be winners every time in my hands and despite feeling quite different both feel good to me. In the revolver class I find that I like old fashioned steel over newer lighter alloys, just because of the way they balance and shoot.
To me caliber doesn't matter as much as you ability to use the gun, within reason, so I wouldn't limit your choices unless there is a very good reason.
I agree with Eric, you simply can't go wrong with a 1911. I do prefer my Smith & Wesson 686, but I'm a wheel gun kind of guy. IMHO a .45 is unnecessary, you'll get more stopping power from a .22 magnum.
:thinking: :thinking: :shrug: :thinking: :thinking:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ookla
There will be a lot of suggestions here, and they will all probably be good ones.
I am partial to Smith and Wesson, but don't let that sway you.
There are several things to consider.
First is you get what you pay for.
If you spend $2000 for a nice Kimber, you will have a good reliable firearm that will not fail you. The same goes for H&K, S&W, Colt, Taurus, etc...
Ask questions If someone tells you a certain brand is beter, ask them why.
reliability, accuracy... etc.
I like Smith & Wesson, because mine have never failed to chamber a round, including questionable hand loads, they have never misfired. They fit my hand well, and feel right. I also have an old off brand 1911, a Taurus, and a Walther that fit that description.
Know your round, and what your intended use is. You wouldn't want to hunt Elephants with a 22, and you aren't going to want to buy a 500 magnum for concealed carry.
If you want a weapon for home security, you should also consider your neighbors. a 357 or 44 magnum have too much penetration and can travel through several houses before stopping.
If you have no intention of carrying and don't have a lot of interest in going to the range, a short barreled pump action 12 gauge shotgun is effective, and can intimidate the most battle hardened criminal.
If you want concealed carry, oso you walk out in front of your house without shouting to the world that you are armed, you may want to consider something smaller like a .32 Beretta, or something in .380 or .40
Do not try to make the gun fit you. As a novice you should look long and hard to find a firearm that feels natural in your hand. If you find such a gun, even if it's not a 45, give it careful consideration.
My suggestion for you for an all around most bang for your buck firearm would be the Springfield XD. It comes in several calibers up to 45, I found it to be very comfortable, it has some good features including an indicator to let you know if you have a round in the chamber without looking.
You can get similar features from almost any firearm manufacturer. so you'll have to shop around.
Sorry I have to comment on this one...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ookla
Although both are lethal at close range, this is so very wrong.
If you double the weight of a bullet you double the Kinetic energy, if you double the velocity you increase the energy by a factor of 4.
Ao a faster bullet is often better than a bigger bullet, but a 22 mag is nowhere near a 45.
The smallest round I would consider for defense is a 32. and that is small for my tastes. I carry a Walther PPKs in 380. ($800)
This IMHO is the least amount of force necessary to get the job done.
I recommended the XD because it is good, and carries about a $500 price tag. Kimber is better, but they run $1500? and up
The least I have spent on a gun I intended to trust my life with was $600
Unless its a race gun designed for speed not reliability or a pretty boy toy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_ratliff
There are some really nice reasonable choices out there. Price isn't, to me always the best indicator of quality. S&W is cheaper than Sig for the most part but I wouldn't put S&W quality at a lower level and Taurus is a bargain for the level of quality you usually get. At the same time for a first gun I wouldn't recommend used either, until you are able to tell if you are buying someone else's' problem that is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildtim
Having the bullet stay in there and rattle around is a hell of a lot better than spray painting your entire house. I believe it was stated that it would be primarily for home defense. Unless you live in a much different type of house than I do, I would imagine we're not talking about 50 yard shots.
At the end of the day, what you should really do is go to a local range and shoot different guns. As with most of the things we discuss here, it's a very YMMV thing. After you decide to purchase one, I would also go shooting frequently. It doesn't matter if you have a gun if you can't shoot it accurately.
I was questioning a 22 magnum having the stopping power of a .45. Both balistically and practically they aren't even in the same league, and it isn't the .45 thats playing AA ball.
Looking back at the wy I originally phrased that, it came out wrong. :gth
Clearly they aren't even close to equal. I did a poor job at conveying what I was trying to say, which is that I think a .22 magnum has adequate stopping power for home defense. It also won't do huge amounts of collateral damage.
I suggested a wheel gun for ease of use and reliablilty. As far as S&W quality, even my sigma has never misfired and that's as budget friendly of a firearm as you can buy.
In the house a short barreled 20" riot shotgun is good. Less chance of going through walls and many loads to choose from. I keep a 10mm Glock by the bed so I don't practice what I preach. :) I keep a Glock 40 in the car and carry a S&W airlight loaded with 38+Ps in my pocket at work. Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really after you.
I agree with a lot of what is being said here. I don't think that you shouldlimit yourself to a .45. I think if it's your first gun and you want the most effective for you without having to train a lot and without a lot of colateral damage than I would go with the 12 gauge. The reason I say this is simple the most feared sound on earth and the sound that causes the highest involuntary bowel and bladder release is the sound of a pump action shot gun being racked. If you really don't want to have to shoot someone, but on the other hand want them to go down and stay down. the shotgun is easily the best choice. I say this because of the following reasons.
1. When under stress, you are going to shake I don't care if you are John Wayne if you hear someone try to break in to your house and you perceive a serious threat to your life you are going to shake. I have been working as an armed security officer for 10 years I go through the training yearly, they go over it every time. When under stress you ware going to have to rely on your training, and your ability to function under stress. I have seen people shoot inside the 10 ring everytime they shoot but when under stress you almost always are going to shoot worse.
If you are shaking and shooting a .45 you will probably miss and your one of your neighbors could suffer lead poisening.
2. Shotgun ammo is cheap, and realatively easy to use with a maximum accurate range of 100 yards shooting pellets.
3. If you miss the pellets probably wont go too much further than your walls where as others could go much further and penetrate many other objects.
If you do decide or laws prohibit a shotgun, I personally would go for a 9mm, that's what I carry. for close quarters accuracy matters but not as much as going to a 100 yard shooting competition. SO that leaves the field open. I have had a ruger p-89 loved the reliability but I could keep a consitent group. I then switched to a magnum research baby eagle. I love it it fits my hand and is very accurate. It does have one quirk and that is if you have the 15 round mag, only carry 14 in the mag in the gun. if you carry 15 and one in the pipe, the 15th round will come out of the mag if you carry in a holster and it gets bumped around. This leads to a stovepipe and isn't fun. If you only put 14 in there isn't a problem though so it was an easy fix.
Get some training NRA gun safety class, better yet join and your gun is then insured.
Okay that's all I have. Happy shopping
Well ive shot alot of ammo, not tons, but enough.
I own a S&W M&P 40 and i like it alot. Not super accurate cause of the floating barrel, but I'm a newb at shooting accurately.
I've shot the XD 40 by Springfield Armory and that is very nice in the hand. And you can find a nice extended clip for it. About 30 rounds.
The PPK 22 cal is nice, I think thats the right gun, but it jams alot with winchester rounds. Don't know why? Other than that its a accurate, nice gun.
Got to love the 38 Special revolver S&W. Man those rounds take a little getting used to for me but, i love em.
I had my favorite time with a Police Style shot gun. It was a blast. "excuse the Pun"
Next gun is the Makarov... anyone have any reviews on it PM me.
Try the Ruger GP100 stainless steel 357 mag. it is one of the sweetest shooting pistols on the market. It is a very a comfortable to shoot, accurate and very safe pistol.
Later,
Richard
To echo a lot of whats already been said. It all depends on you and the intended purpose. As far as the .45 goes, even though you are big enough to handle it, I would not reccommend it unless you have fired enough to be comfortable with the recoil. I have a Ruger snub nosed 357 mag that I absolutely love to fire 38's in. The 357 mag's arent as much fun to shoot in that tiny little pistol. It has the concealed hammer and was my concealed carry gun while I was in AZ. Here in Hawaii, while they do have a CC law, you will never get one. Nonetheless, as far as stopping power, a .45 definitely will do the job. You can get ammo that breaks apart upon impact and will not go though a standard wall, but will kill a person dead enough... I will tell you though that no one I know had any problems with their M9 (beretta 9mm) in Iraq. I think one of the biggest factors is being able to stay on target after the shot. In this regard the .45 is probably at the bottom of the list. Although you wouldnt need more than one well placed shot, I would still go with a 9mm. You can empty a 15 round clip and stay within the chest region of a man for everyone of them. (trust me) Which brings us to the next advantage of the 9mm. Magaizine capacity. Most 45's have a 7-9 round limit to include the one in the chamber while the 9mm can have up to 16. Most people in situations where they had to use their gun, report firing once, maybe twice when in reality they emptied everything they had. And yes, if you ever need to use this thing, you are going to do some shaking, but its been my experience that its not until afterwards. When the time comes, if you have trained well and practiced enough, you're instincts will take over and you wont start shaking until after the shots are fired. I have a Beretta 9 that I love. You find a firing range and bring the ammo, we'll send some rounds down range. I can give you all the pointers you'll need and any day spent shooting things is a good day. Especially when no one is shooting back...
The very fact that there is so much talent in the forum whether it be shaving or otherwise, if a question is asked an answer is given and in many cases there is someone nearby if need be to help the person who asked the question. That's awesome Shaun to offer your assistance, thanks for helping make this forum great. bevansmw, I highly reccomend you take him up on his offer experience is everything and yes the shaking does usually occur afterwards but training is a key to that as well. Happy shooting.
Several things to consider in a house gun. The most important one being:
1) Where is the house?
- Where are the neighbors? Are you in an apartment, or are there any neighbors near by? Your first thoughts need to focus on safety, not stopping power.
2) Next, is this your first gun?
Don't overlook the revolver. It provides many, many advantages for a house gun. One important one being that it will work without being properly oiled and is easy to ensure its loaded. Some autos won't feed the kinda bullet you should be using for a house gun. A .45 auto is a nice sexy package, but its the bullets that do the work.
4) Guns have a tendency to be pretty effective, even in small packages, so remember that even if a gun is a "house" gun, strange circumstances can occur in your future in which you decide that, at least temporarily, your house gun needs to come with you.
I would suggest, and given my thoughts above, you can decide on any gun you want, that I would recommend a .38 Special or .357 Magnum (loaded with .38 Special hollow points) with a 4 inch barrel or less and any grip you feel comfortable with, to start. Otherwise, if you have a lot of experience with guns, are willing to oil the gun correctly, are willing to test shoot it often, and are willing to use magazines that function correctly with whatever bullet works well (usually a roundball), the .45 auto is a great choice.
I know, not the sexiest answer, but there is a lot to consider with a "house gun", I think safety and reliability are very high on the list. The downside of a revolver is they require practice and a "cool head" during a gun fight to be proficient. A .45 auto is a great gun if your leaping to the conclusion that you'll be the one using the gun in a crisis and are relatively experienced with autos in general. Two points that haven't been clarified yet. By most peoples definition a house gun can be used by any adult member of the house.
Lot's of good advice in this thread. There is no best answer. It has to fit and be comfortable to the one using it. If man and wife are in the household both need to be proficient with the choice. I have many wheel guns in calibers from .22 to S&W 500 Magnum. My choice in this category would be my .44 Special Rossi with my special hand loaded Horniday XP hollow points. If I need more than 5 shots I need more training. I also have a Glock .40 which is my first choice and what I use for home defense. It has never failed to chamber, easy to handle, has a 15 round clip for peace of mind and the caliber choice is a good one. It's spring and time to go to the range.
bj
Great advice. I have a short barrel shotgun for home defense, a Springfield XD .40 cal that I intended to carry, a Kel-Tec .32 that I DO carry and an AK-74 for when all hell breaks loose :wQuote:
Originally Posted by kbs_74
For home defense, the short barrel shotgun is the best choice (though maybe not as exciting as other choices).
Good luck!
The 1911 is the best designed handgun there ever was. The recoil is nothing once you are used to it used to it. 100 yrs of proven reliability, and will knock someone back 15feet and hold them down. :y For home use a pump shotgun is also great. The intruder hears you jack the slide and will crap their pants at the sound while trying to slide out whatever hole the crawled in from. For those of youwho have not figured it out, I may be somewhat biased towards the .45, but only a little.:nj
+1 on the 1911 and the shotgun! Nothing else compares IMHO.
Fred
there's a .45 1911 on my bedstand and a 12ga pumpgun not far away every night when I go to sleep.
you really just can't beat an all steel government-sized 1911 in .45 acp. (some of the alloy framed ones have serious reliability issues, I can't recommend them) my personal advice is don't waste your money on combat tupperware, go get some American steel!
(yeah, I'm hugely biased. but in all the years I've shot ipsc, idpa, idsa, 3-gun, etc. the winner is almost always carrying a 1911 of some sort.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSYhbdqPoS0
^just stick one of those T-Rex's in your pants...no one's going to mess with you
I have both of these handguns...and I would recommend them both
http://www.sigsauer.com/images/catal...liteSTLeft.jpg
Sigarms P220 .45 (not my picture)
http://www.lasermax.com/products/images/lms-3xd.jpg
Springfield XD Sub-compact (not my picture)
Every time I hear this phrase it reminds me of an old Robin Williams routine:Quote:
Originally Posted by jockeys
"So remember, before going into battle, burp your shield!":roflmao
I would say there are two options:
1. Go for the shotgun. Like someone said, there's nothing like the sound of a shotgun being pumped. It announces to whomever is uninvited that you're ready with a no shit beat down. They're easy to operate and you're more or less guaranteed to hit the guy in the event you have to shoot. This is a great option because you don't have to say anything to let the guy know you mean business. They're cheap and don't really take any practice. Just point and click.
2. Hit the range and rent a variety of guns. Gun rentals are usually pretty cheap and you'll be able to sample a good range of weapons. You'll find that certain models or calibers will suit you better (I'll take a 44 magnum revolver over a 45 auto any day), letting you decide which gun is truly right for you.
I guess it all depends on how much of an investment you want to make. If you get a pistol, you MUST go to the range and practice regularly. It involves buying lots of ammo and renting the lanes, which adds up pretty quick. If that doesn't bother you, go for it! Personally, I love going to the range. There's nothing like pulling out your weapon and putting a box of ammo center mass.
If you were to get a shotgun, check out Mossberg's 500 Cruiser with pistol grip. It's a meanie!
http://www.autoburst.net/graphics/Rifles/Moss500.jpg
Better yet the Mossberg 590!!!:tu
For home defense, a 12 gauge pump with the shortest barrel local and federal law will allow. Pull the plug and load it full of 000 buckshot. Under $500 or so and you don't even need to shoot well. If you cannot handle whatever trouble visits your house with a 12 gauge, move.
Should you require something a little more portable, you cannot do better than a .45. Like everyone has said before me, you need to go shooting. I love my H&K USP compact, but only settle on it after shooting Glocks, Sigs, Kimbers and numerous others.
Also, beware that automatics can jam and if one is likely to do so, it is going to be at the worst possible time. So I would encourage you to look at revolvers too. A .357 may not have the capacity or stopping power of a .45 auto but it makes a whole lot of bang Sometimes that is all it takes.
having worked in law Enforcement for many years I will tell you it doesn't matter what round does what it only matters what weapon and round you can handle. You can go to a range a million times however when you are in a crisis situation shooting at a moving target all that practice is basically worthless.
If you want a hone defense weapon buy a 12 guage. There is none better. For a handgun go to a range where you can use em all and get what you are most comfortable with. The sig .357 is about the best pistol round right now.
There's plenty of excellent advice given here...
I think what's most important is after finding the firearm you feel most comfortable with is practice practice practice.
I can't tell you how many times I see Police officers come down to the range because they didn't qualify on their semi annual tests. And they're just shooting NON moving paper.
For home, I'd go with a shotgun with the shortest barrel allow by law. Maybe go with a remington 1187 (semi-automatic) or go with the forever reliable remington 870 (pump). Try shooting trap and skeet so you can get a handle on "moving" targets. Maybe go bird hunting every so often.. That'll sharpen up your skills.
If you want a handgun, I'd go with a browning hi-power, glock G18 :w or a HK model 23 :y
My pointer would be to buy a firearm you like and will learn to shoot. Im sure Hawaii has a gun range at which you can rent a firearm. A firearm is of marginal value if you cant or wont use it. If its a house gun, get a 12 ga. shotgun and some 00 buck shot loads. That should do it. If you like hand guns, go rent some at the range. Revolvers are good as you can hardly make them malfunction. Or, I guess you could go buy one off the street and get a few rounds to stick in it and hope you never have to pick it up. :y :roflmao :yQuote:
Originally Posted by bevansmw
All great advice, but i will chime in once more, often times a gun can save your life without being fired...
It's the OH S**T factor, or Pucker factor as my dad calls it.
Most guns have to be seen to induce this fear in an intruder, but as another member said a pump action shotgun will induce this to the greatest degree, and without being seen.
The sound is recognisable the world over, and because of the spread you are almost guaranteed to get a hit. Nothing will stop an intruder, and keep them away as effectively as a 12 gauge.
I got the Springfield Armory XD .40 subcompact back in September as my first gun. It has great safety features that you won't find in a glock. The butt of the gun must be engaged with your thumb webbing as this presses down on a safety mechanism built into the rear side of the handle. It also has two indicators of the gun's cocked and/or loaded state. So, I feel quite a bit more comfortable with the Springfield than with a glock. That said, the first time I shot with the Springfield, it scared the **** out of me and I thought that it may be too much gun for me. That feeling does go away some, but the feeling that I should've bought a shotgun does not. When and if I get my conceal carry license I think the Springfield will be perfect, but if the gun is mostly going to stay at home I don't think you will have any regrets with a nice shotgun. Also, many have told me that the 9mms do similar damage compared to the .40 and are not quite as scary. Let us know what you end up with.
Yes, don't get one, guns are bad
p.s. thats just jealousy because they don't let us play with guns over here
I like my Taurus 1911 .45 as well as my XD. I could mention a few others, but both of these are nice for a new guy. If you are going to own a gun, you are definitely taking on a serious responsibility, even if for home protection. The comments around knowing your local gun laws is critical. I also think learning to shoot properly and practicing often are also part of the exercise.
Have fun and be safe.
Lynn
Quote:
Originally Posted by crichton
++ to this.
:tu