Homeland Security, is it going too far?

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Originally Posted by geoffreyt

And that is why we dont win anymore

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In modern day society, We would be looked on as monsters if we dared to wage a war like we did in WW2...
Carpet bombing of cities unlimited warfare on the country side, destroying everything in our path, or dropping the bomb to save our soldiers from having to fight and die...

We can't do that in this day and age, not when we have smart bombs that we can send through the window of a mud hut...
We have to be politically correct, and follow rules laid down by politicians who have never set foot on a battlefield.
If the politicians would step aside, and lift the shackles from our military, there is very little that could stop them. The war that would ensue would be short, bruital, and absolutely devistating to any and all who got in the way, but it would be done and over with.

I can't say what is better or worse, but I think it's high time people stop complaining about an extended presence in Iraq, when it's our own insistence on being politically correct that has prolonged it.
Terrorists don't care about being politically correct, they will kill indescriminantly, kill women and children, use human shields, etc...
Eventually if we want to win, we will have to take the offensive... and forget about being PC.

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Originally Posted by jockeys

eh, I've found that the respectfullness of cops is directly proportional to how high the crime rate is.

example:
When I lived in rich white suburbia in north DFW, the cops were inhuman monsters.

When I lived in a nasty ghetto in the piney woods, the cops were outstanding human beings.

The difference? The ghetto cops had plenty of real crime to deal with. If you weren't trying to shoot them, you were their friend. A cop who just caught a murderer the previous day prolly won't feel the need to be rude to the guy he's giving a speeding ticket to. The cops in the rich, crime free area were bored out of their minds because there was almost nothing for them to do, apart from writing parking tickets and lecturing at elementary schools. So they were "looking for an excuse" and would harass people with little or no provocation.

Just what I've noticed, ymmv.

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:HJ
For some reason I have had great experience with cops in the suburb I live in. But I work in a different suburb and the problem you describe with cops in the rich, crime-free area seems to be there. :shrug: The question I've always asked myself is, "Would becoming a cop turn me into a cop, or would I still just be me with a badge?"

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

:HJ
For some reason I have had great experience with cops in the suburb I live in. But I work in a different suburb and the problem you describe with cops in the rich, crime-free area seems to be there. :shrug: The question I've always asked myself is, "Would becoming a cop turn me into a cop, or would I still just be me with a badge?"

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Great questions and well put.

I think on the wealthy suburbs thing it depends. When I was a kid in the 'burbs, yes the police took a certain "attitude" toward you. It didn't bother me though because I always thought that was their job - kind of how you expect your parents to act like...parents. I don't think the cops where I live now would be too aggressive with an adult for a minor infraction that didn't really threaten anyone's safety. I live in a small town that is pretty rich and many people here have the money and connections to be heard by the town government if the police became obnoxious for no good reason.


Jordan

Well besides that little squirt off on combat and winning wars it sounds like our thread really is beginning to evolve into an issue of manners.

I think its excellent when professionals; cops and customs workers, act professional. I don't really think we would all suggest that this situation, and how "Homeland Security" is going too far really should evolve on manners, but I'll comment anyway.

One, people have a tendancy to begin to act in response to their environment. Expecting people to politely say "Now, sir, I will conduct a body cavity search, if you please", usually doesn't last very long, because of the responses they get.

The comment of the customs official "How dare you questions an officer "... blah, blah, or whatever was a pretty dumb thing to say. With that attitude he must get questioned a lot.

Police officers, on the other hand, learn a subject called "Verbal Judo"; where they learn that manners and kindness are actually valuable tools in dealing with the public. Many police officers receive this training, and many others do not. Many develop the Superman complex and act in very strange ways in order to survive the streets. They use language to direct, intimidate, control, and survive, usually in ways that don't really pay off well in the long run; but it works well on the average person.

I think the main problem with this woman was that she never made the leap in her mind that she was under arrest for illegal/false entry in the U.S., that she was being imprisoned until released, that, as a journalist, she is a member of one of the most hated professions on the planet, that as a Russian, living in England, would be suspected as a spy, that anyone could plant anything in her luggage anytime they wanted to whether she watched or not, that her failure to answer questions directly and completely was working against her in near fatalistic proportions, that her rights to due process were hanging by a thread, that her threats that she would write an article about the events were not intimidating anyone, and that she is lucky she was allowed to return to her country at all, without serving a continued detention. Also required should have been the presence of a diplomatic representative to sign for her so Britian could respond to allowing one of their citizens to make this mistake and correct her ignorance. Additionally, they should have provided guidance toall the other journalists in her home country, which they may have done.

I think the article she wrote should have been titled

"Russian, Pseudo-Journalist, attempts illegal entry into the U.S. and discovers bad etiquette"

Now, none of you would ever think that this women who went back home and wrote this artical would ever have exaggerated her experiences just a little now do you? What do you think really happened? And whoever said I was wrong about the visa waiver program needs to realize that the key word here is visitor whether it be pleasure or business which she was not. This may seem like an easy distinction but by law it is not. Nothing in Immigration law is easy.

We'll just have to disagree. She might have been exagerrating. But then I haven't exactly known airport officials to be reasonable.

(try to say "bomb" in an airport, see what happends.)

I'm sure they're on edge and everything. But I still say that someone who isn't percieved as a direct threat shouldn't be treated like they are one.

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Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

We'll just have to disagree. She might have been exagerrating. But then I haven't exactly known airport officials to be reasonable.

(try to say "bomb" in an airport, see what happends.)

I'm sure they're on edge and everything. But I still say that someone who isn't percieved as a direct threat shouldn't be treated like they are one.

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I have to say LX, you have no idea what really happened or even if anything did happen! there is only one side to the story, and that is her side! until I hear the other side or at least see that she reported the incident to the proper authorities I am inclined to disbelieve her story!

Nope. I don't. But I don't have reason to assume that it's NOT true either.

And taking my personal experience concerning airport officials I've more reason to take HER story on faith than to take the side of those incarcerating her.

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Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

(try to say "bomb" in an airport, see what happends.)

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or even "HI JACK!" :w :eek:





Sorry, I couldn't resist, could we say that this thread has been :HJ

Hahaha! Excellent (in a Mr. Burns manner with finger steepled...sorry, I watched about 4 Simpsons Episodes yesterday)