Western culture! How fortunate we are!

Perhaps you should relisten to the portion related to quote of Adam Smith fellas

I really don't find anything ironic, plenty of science, philosophy, mysticism(ie religion and related pursuits) have been conducted under non democratic rule.

I would agree that a broad view of history is needed to form valid opinions on what is good and right and necessary but I tend to disagree that the world has been improved; all you can say is that it has changed;)

Early in the thread it was mentioned that compassion in war was an exclusively Christian ideal

You may not like this translation of the Tao Te Ching. Chapeter 31:
weapons are the tools of violence
all decent men detest them

weapons are the tools of fear
a decent man will avoid them
except in the direst necessity
and, if compelled, will use them
only with the utmost restraint
peace is his highest value
if the peace has been shattered
how can he be content?
his enemies are not demons
but human beings like himself
he doesn't wish them personal harm
nor does he rejoice in victory
how could he rejoice in victory
and delight in the slaughter of men?

he enters a battle gravely
with sorrow and with great compassion
as if he were attending a funeral


or this excerpt from 18:
when the country falls into chaos
patriotism is born

I took this out of the Hog Le Hou, and I don't know what chapter because it's just scribbled on the back of a post it note:

Chaos creates dire necessities and out of it nations are born

Victory is usually better than defeat and self-defense is usually better than death

Without weapons, common people become the victims of those who would take their freedom by force

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kevint

weapons are the tools of violence
all decent men detest them

---

too bad not all men are decent

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kevint

weapons are the tools of fear
a decent man will avoid them
except in the direst necessity
and, if compelled, will use them
only with the utmost restraint

---

so he should have weapons, no?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kevint

peace is his highest value
if the peace has been shattered
how can he be content?
his enemies are not demons
but human beings like himself
he doesn't wish them personal harm
nor does he rejoice in victory
how could he rejoice in victory
and delight in the slaughter of men?

---

because to kill is better than to die?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kevint

he enters a battle gravely
with sorrow and with great compassion
as if he were attending a funeral

---

But he is going to do his best that it isn't his.
And frivolously going into battle is not the best way to win.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kevint

or this excerpt from 18:
when the country falls into chaos
patriotism is born

---

Personally I think it is the other way around.
If you can get people to become fiercly patriotic, they will also be fiercely agressive against anything that is not patriotic.
From that point it is easy enough to make them do what you want by telling them what's patriotic and what's not.

Hi Bruno,
What exactly do you think I was trying to say?

I wonder because I find your responses to be in general agreement with my beliefs.

The sort of patriotism you describe at the end of your post sounds to me like the same fervor that drives this thread.;)

Consider the contradiction of warrior monk, "The life giving sword", the possibility of a compassionate murder.

Consider the differences between the totalitarianism of the Victorian zoo, and the democratic republic of our kinder gentler modern zoos. The latter is far better for the inhabitants, but not really "free". That is the sort of freedom I feel as my experience.