The conflict in Gaza.

On a personal note, I attended Jewish parochial schools through my first year in college. Many of my highschool friends are now settlers in the West Bank. My father and brother are both rabbis and Zionists. I know these people like the back of my hand, or should I say, my circumsized p***s. These people are dangerous religious fanatics and racists, who sincerely believe that non-Jews are animals worthy of slaughter. They have a well-oiled propaganda machine that churns out hundreds of newspaper articles every day about how complicated the situation is. Unfortunately for the US, which is paying for all of this, it isn't complicated at all. It's about cruel people who want the land and know that they can get away with murder.[/quote]


Obviusly he has knowledge on the subject, but how unbiaced is it to call pretty much all jews racists?

I do not want to get deeply involved in this conversation. If one wants to take their information from terribly boased sources on EITHER side of an issue and consider that "homework," they will always be pretty sure they are both well informed and right. They will very rarely be either.

If anyone believes that Hamas would suddenly recognize Israel if they withwrew to their pre-67 borders, and no longer call for its destruction, they are a simpleton. They have allowed themselves to believe the worst type of lie.

An enemy SWORN TO MY DESTRUCTION will remain an enemy. Regardless of my concessions.

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Originally Posted by KristofferBodvin

Obviusly he has knowledge on the subject, but how unbiaced is it to call pretty much all jews racists?

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I offer a quote from Stephan Walt:

"What if Hamas was hiding out among the civilian population of Tel Aviv, and attacking Israel from within? Would the IDF be using massive force to eradicate them? Unless you think that Palestinian and Israeli civilian lives are not equal, what justifies the current policy?"

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Originally Posted by Chimensch

I offer a quote from Stephan Walt:

"What if Hamas was hiding out among the civilian population of Tel Aviv, and attacking Israel from within? Would the IDF be using massive force to eradicate them? Unless you think that Palestinian and Israeli civilian lives are not equal, what justifies the current policy?"

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Really? That holds water in your mind? Why would one hurt and kill their own population to protect their population? Israel is PROTECTING ITS POPULATION BY FIGHTING ITS SWORN ENEMY. You are right...that's not so complicated.
If Israel could wipe out Hamas by bombing one building, or one block in Tel Aviv, do I think they would? Probably.

If the US could wipe out Al Queda by bombing a building in lower Manhattan, do I think they would? Probably. The "Just War" doctrine would even seem to justify it, though I'm not sure I agree.

If someone was attacking your town, would you attack them? What if they were hiding in a neighboring town that was not friendly to you and there was no other way to stop them but air and ground attack? No? You would let them keep firing rockets? I mean, they are worth the same as you, right? So good of you to sacrifice your family. Your safety. Very righteous.

I'm sorry. I said I would not get involved in this thread. Quoting the anti-Israel academics and press no more convinces anyone than quoting the Israeli press/government reports will convince you.


This will be my last post in this thread.

I can sum up the entire problem, and why it will never, ever be over:

Israeli: a Palestinian killed my father, I will not rest until I have revenge.
Palestinian: an Israeli killed my grandfather, I will not rest until I have revenge.

wash, rinse, repeat. forever.

There are a lot of Jews who are simply aghast at what Israel is doing in Gaza. Anyone who is interested in reading more about this subject would find Mondoweiss very interesting.

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Originally Posted by jockeys

I can sum up the entire problem, and why it will never, ever be over:

Israeli: a Palestinian killed my father, I will not rest until I have revenge.
Palestinian: an Israeli killed my grandfather, I will not rest until I have revenge.

wash, rinse, repeat. forever.

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So, you're saying that there's no place for diplomacy and the only answer is genocide? The real problem with understanding what is going on in Palestine is that Israel says one thing and does another. If you focus on what Israel does, it becomes very clear what its intentions are. Israel's current attack on Gaza can only have one result and that is to intensify Arab hatred against it. Why is it doing that?

The creation of modern Isreal by the taking away of Palestinian lands in 1948 is how the whole thing started is it not?

So, you have one homeland founded upon the taking away of someone else's, by means of a third party (Britain, who previously had been in charge of the area, right?).

When we say that the Isrealiis have a right to defend themselves agianst agression, etc. Why don't the Palestinians have that same right? Isn't their beef somewhat justified?

That said, obviously bombing, shooting, killing is not the most civilized way to go about things on either side.


Okay, this is a poor analogy, but here goes anyhow- What if we in the USA created a new "homeland" for all of the "illegal" aliens in this country by, let's say, taking away Texas and giving it to them? How would the native Texans feel?

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Originally Posted by Chimensch

So, you're saying that there's no place for diplomacy and the only answer is genocide?

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I'm saying they don't WANT diplomacy. They want to fight, obviously, or they wouldn't.

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Originally Posted by Seraphim

The creation of modern Isreal by the taking away of Palestinian lands in 1948 is how the whole thing started is it not?

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IIRC they created the Palestinian state of Trans-Jordan before they created the Jewish state of Israel. This is not a pro Israeli statement just a look at the timeline of events.