I Don't Think Magnets Support Our Troops

I agree with Kljr that anyone who went into the military for the hopes of a high five when they get back is ridiculous, and I never intended that. I will agree that living your life solely for yourself IS ordinary, and that military service IS extraordinary. But, I feel that this statement leaves out quite a bit. It's also a bit black and white. It makes me think "if you aren't military, you are ordinary."

There isn't a heirarchy of life whose pinnacle can only be attained through military service. Living your life selflessly can be achieved through many different venues. Policemen, Firemen, Rescue personel, medical service, etc.

And you know what? I know PLENTY of non-patriotic people who have joined the military. Not all enlisted are so honorable as those who have spoken up in this thread. I REALLY don't mean to offend anyone by this statement, but for some percentage it's true. I'm sure during this economic downturn there are plenty of people who are joining the military just to pay the bills. There's nothing wrong with that, but I can't say that it's the most honorable reason compared to those who serve to serve.

Despite what their reason for joining may be, I don't think that the military has ever deserved the negative reception that they often get. Whether it be in Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, or anywhere. It makes me sad. Seeing the state of some of the military hospitals, the number of homeless vets, those suffering from PTSD. We spend so much on the military, but so little on taking care of our guys after they come home.

I read a few weeks ago where soldiers are being sent bills after they get out of the military. One guy lost his helmet as he was running during combat, so the army sent him a bill for the helmet. What kind of crap is that? Total BS.


About the magnets; I don't agree with the statement "God bless OUR troops"..... God bless ALL troops is more like it. They are just doing what they are supposed to do. It's those who are in positions of power who cause the wars that should be done away with.

The troops on the "other" side have sons and daughters, wives and fathers, etc. just like our guys do. God bless the US troops, the Iraqi troops, the Spanish, German, Russian and so on.


A question for you though: There are plenty of retired marines around my town who have the magnets on their cars. How do you respond to that? Is it okay for them to have the magnets but not for soccer moms?

I know that the magnets do jack crap for the individual soldier. but a second question: What's wrong with displaying them?

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Perhaps. But 4 years is a very long time. And as I already indicated, the military is not a place for free thinkers or questioning authority. 4 years in the military would be devastating to many people.

Perhaps HR thinks that veterans make better employees, and from their point of view that may very well be true. Military people are used to a) obeying orders b) respecting paperwork c) respecting chain of command.
But I also know that military people ending up in ICT management positions can also end up causing big problems because they insist on having a rigid chain of command, and expecting people to obey without being open for discussion. And that is not the best way to lead a team of developers or system administrators. You can't herd cats.

The military is a good fit for some things and for some people, but also a bad fit for other things and other people. That does not mean I have disrespect for it, but forcing everybody through it for 4 years is not going to be a big success any more than forcing everybody through 4 years of college.

Different strokes for different people. A population that comes out of a cookie cutter is not that useful

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I agree. Another aspect is the money. Training etc. They say every time a new recruit processes through MEPS its a minimum of 1200.00. I don't know how true that dollar figure is but its still high considering the amount of people that would have to be processed. Also security clearances and other training. You will hear some leaders say the most expensive and best weapon is, you.

Also what about the people that would try to duck their service and go do drugs or worst?

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Perhaps. But 4 years is a very long time. And as I already indicated, the military is not a place for free thinkers or questioning authority. 4 years in the military would be devastating to many people.

Perhaps HR thinks that veterans make better employees, and from their point of view that may very well be true. Military people are used to a) obeying orders b) respecting paperwork c) respecting chain of command.
But I also know that military people ending up in ICT management positions can also end up causing big problems because they insist on having a rigid chain of command, and expecting people to obey without being open for discussion. And that is not the best way to lead a team of developers or system administrators. You can't herd cats.

The military is a good fit for some things and for some people, but also a bad fit for other things and other people. That does not mean I have disrespect for it, but forcing everybody through it for 4 years is not going to be a big success any more than forcing everybody through 4 years of college.

Different strokes for different people. A population that comes out of a cookie cutter is not that useful

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Okay, bingo Bruno you touched a nerve. Wow! from what deep well of knowledge are you drawing these conclusions? Holy crap, we are going off topic here but I gotta tell ya Bruno, I am shocked at your attitude. I read what you are saying but between the lines sounds like you feel the security of your country is up to someone else, the sons and daughters of someone else. Your "free thinking" sons and daughters have no place defending the frredoms that allow them to think freely. I will have to discuss this with my Belgian friends to see if this is a predominant attitude in the Flemish world. History has shown us the efficacy of the Belgian military. Pretty strong against naked Africans with sticks but I seem to remember alot of Americans put college educations on hold to go over there and die for your forefathers.

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Originally Posted by Ben325e

And you know what? I know PLENTY of non-patriotic people who have joined the military. Not all enlisted are so honorable as those who have spoken up in this thread. I REALLY don't mean to offend anyone by this statement, but for some percentage it's true. I'm sure during this economic downturn there are plenty of people who are joining the military just to pay the bills. There's nothing wrong with that, but I can't say that it's the most honorable reason compared to those who serve to serve.



About the magnets; I don't agree with the statement "God bless OUR troops"..... God bless ALL troops is more like it. They are just doing what they are supposed to do. It's those who are in positions of power who cause the wars that should be done away with.

The troops on the "other" side have sons and daughters, wives and fathers, etc. just like our guys do. God bless the US troops, the Iraqi troops, the Spanish, German, Russian and so on.


A question for you though: There are plenty of retired marines around my town who have the magnets on their cars. How do you respond to that? Is it okay for them to have the magnets but not for soccer moms?

I know that the magnets do jack crap for the individual soldier. but a second question: What's wrong with displaying them?

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I discussed the various reasons people join the service in detail.

Are you reading and responding to these messages or just blurting thoughts out randomly? I never said the placement of a magnet on your car is a bad thing. I said that there are alot of people who have stickers and magnets on their cars who feel by the very placement of that magnet they have made the life of someone's son or daughter who is in harm's way in some foreign land easier or safer. As far as ex-Marines, they have done their share. They were a "troop". They don't have to do another thing, ever. They can do what they want and no one can legitimately slight them for it. Soccer mom's? Those little kept women who drive around in gigantic SUV's wasting gas and talking on the cell phone while their kids bounce around in the back without their seatbelts on while their husbannds are off working to pay the bills? F them. F them for they don't know a goddamned thing about sacrifice in the name of theiir country.

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Originally Posted by icedog

I said that there are alot of people who have stickers and magnets on their cars who feel by the very placement of that magnet they have made the life of someone's son or daughter who is in harm's way in some foreign land easier or safer.

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This sort of thought process is based primarily on assumption!
How many are alot Brad? all of America? All of Connecticut? your little town? or maybe just 3 or 4 friends you have spoken to?
To make such an assumption does a disservice to intelligent men and women everywhere!

My mother always said to assume and treat all as if they were ladies and gentlemen until they prove differently! It appears that you take the exact opposite approach. Is that correct?

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Originally Posted by JMS

This sort of thought process is based primarily on assumption!
How many are alot Brad? all of America? All of Connecticut? your little town? or maybe just 3 or 4 friends you have spoken to?
To make such an assumption does a disservice to intelligent men and women everywhere!

My mother always said to assume and treat all as if they were ladies and gentlemen until they prove differently! It appears that you take the exact opposite approach. Is that correct?

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Okay Mark, are you saying there are not alot of people who have placed magnets on their cars that say they support troops but have done nothing else? Aside from that my original issue is that the magnets mean nothing so why bother putting them on you car. Do you have a problem with me asking that? Are you going to answer my question or do you just want to stir up some crap?

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Originally Posted by Bruno

But I also know that military people ending up in ICT management positions can also end up causing big problems because they insist on having a rigid chain of command, and expecting people to obey without being open for discussion. And that is not the best way to lead a team of developers or system administrators. You can't herd cats.

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+1 agree. In my field (defense industry) we have a lot of ex-military types. They are all very loyal and dependable guys. Almost none of them have any creativity or advanced problem solving skills. YMMV, but that's what I've noticed. You'll notice the Manhattan Project didn't pull innovation from the military... just funds. The creativity had to be "outsourced" to crazy civilians that had problems following orders and questioned damn near everything. A lot of other military technology (I'm talking from firsthand experience here) is made the same way.

Not trying to say it's always this way. But it's this way often enough that it sort of makes you wonder. And I really don't think if I had been broken down in boot camp and military living for 4 years... I don't think I'd be able to do what I do today, and creatively solve problems that in turn, help the military do what they do.


Takes all kinds. Bruno said it best.

This seems to be a touchy theme... I'm no Mod but if I'm allowed to, I'd call out some reason.
I don't think this sort of agressiveness is doing any good to anyone and the thread will go sour in no time. That being said, I retreat to my cocoon of never having served my country in the military. However, I do not take my freedoms for granted. Men and women of my country are serving in these and other conflict zones to help create a more peaceful world. And they also do it to feed their own.

Stickers do nothing to support the troops unless the money profited from their purchase is used to provide confort for the poor soldier doing his or her job overseas. It's the polititians tha wage war against eachother that are to blame. A soldier is just that: a soldier. It's a job. No more, no less. Why one particular soldier is a soldier is another issue.
War is pure filth and nobody should ever be subjected to it's horrors.

Brad, you may well rant at me for saying this but I don't beleive Bruno is taking his freedoms for granted. I'm sure he is quite aware that his country was invaded twice in the last century and wars were fought in his own backyard (quite litteraly, perhaps...). By saying what you did say you are only inforcing the arrogant position that the US have had in the last 50 or so years. Your country is not the Police of the world... You are powerful, but think of the costs.

Stay cool, chaps!

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Originally Posted by icedog

Okay Mark, are you saying there are not alot of people who have placed magnets on their cars that say they support troops but have done nothing else? Aside from that my original issue is that the magnets mean nothing so why bother putting them on you car. Do you have a problem with me asking that? Are you going to answer my question or do you just want to stir up some crap?

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Why would I make such an assumption about people I don't even know! whatever their reason for the magnets its better for our soldiers to see that sort of support than being spit on! Don't under estimate the psychological effects of either action!
As for whether I have a problem with them putting such magnets on their car? Absolutely not!
As for crap stirring? I leave that to the pros! All I am doing is pointing out what I believe to be obvious!

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Originally Posted by jockeys

+1 agree. In my field (defense industry) we have a lot of ex-military types. They are all very loyal and dependable guys. Almost none of them have any creativity or advanced problem solving skills. YMMV, but that's what I've noticed. You'll notice the Manhattan Project didn't pull innovation from the military... just funds. The creativity had to be "outsourced" to crazy civilians that had problems following orders and questioned damn near everything. A lot of other military technology (I'm talking from firsthand experience here) is made the same way.

Not trying to say it's always this way. But it's this way often enough that it sort of makes you wonder. And I really don't think if I had been broken down in boot camp and military living for 4 years... I don't think I'd be able to do what I do today, and creatively solve problems that in turn, help the military do what they do.


Takes all kinds. Bruno said it best.

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This type of thinking is a very shallow generalization. I know you folks have seen alot of my artwork, designs and writings. I don't want to wax defensive here as this thread isn't about this topic nor me. But I do want to squelch this nonsense right away. I served with many other artists. I wonder if you did some research would you still suggest that veterans are not able to be creative. Here is a terrifical organization that is all about artistic veterans: LAAVAA I would suggest that veterans make better leaders than followers demonstrating good team building skills as open minded self starters. Of course I am currently unemployed and wallowing in self pity but hey.