Thread: Why is cloning "profoundly wrong"?

Originally Posted by smokelaw1

Because a clone is a human being (I think we might have had this conversation before), and I do not believe an embryo is.
I'm with Jockeys here. A human is a human, no matter how it is born/comes to be. An embryo is a clump of cells that could, given certain circumstances, and assuming nothing goes wrong, someday become a human.

So, why not then simply create a clone of whomever needs medical help, but then you can stop that clone's development at whatever pre-determined (or rather yet to be determined) point in gestation before it actually gains rights as a human being? Perform a legal abortion and harvest your brandy-new people-parts.

I mean, embryonic stem cells belong to who knows what kind of people, why not be sure of the stem cells, or spare body parts, you will be recieving will be a good genetic match, right?

Originally Posted by Seraphim

So, why not then simply create a clone of whomever needs medical help, but then you can stop that clone's development at whatever pre-determined (or rather yet to be determined) point in gestation before it actually gains rights as a human being? Perform a legal abortion and harvest your brandy-new people-parts.

I mean, embryonic stem cells belong to who knows what kind of people, why not be sure of the stem cells, or spare body parts, you will be recieving will be a good genetic match, right?

At this point though you are trudging through the murky waters of abortion, religion, etc.. Especially when you speak in terms of gestation and gaining rights.

Some have proffered the idea of growing, for lack of a better term, dead humans. Those without brains so that the argument could be made that they are not sentient and therefor devoid of life. Not sure if that would satisfy most but personally I think its kinda creepy.

Sci-Fi maybe, but then again so was the computer, the robot, the cell phone, space travel.

It will happen one day and since we can already grow ears on mice and better yet grow heart muscle out of a printer I think we are closer than most of us would like to be.

In order to have a problem with human cloning I'd first have to have a lack of faith in the human race now or even eons into the future to use such science responsibly, peacefully and to the greater good rather than to exploit, subdue, dominate or exterminate.





Ya gotta love us humans; we crack me up.

Chris L

Originally Posted by singlewedge

Sci-Fi maybe, but then again so was the computer, the robot, the cell phone, space travel.

It will happen one day and since we can already grow ears on mice and better yet grow heart muscle out of a printer I think we are closer than most of us would like to be.

I kind of doubt it. Assuming we can make the embryo grow into a fullsize human adult body somehow (which is admittedly the easier problem) then we still have a serious problem with the brain.

Assuming that a physically identical brain (all the molecules and electric charges are identical) actually contains the same memories and stuff, which is a big assumption and in no way guaranteed to work, we still have the problem of mapping all the neurons so we can build an exact copy. Currently, mapping all the neurons exceeds the computational power of every single computer on the planet, running in unison for a thousand years. But, they make better computers all the time, so we'll skip that.

We still can't map the physical brain with the necessary level of detail because Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle makes it utterly impossible to do that without screwing up our map. Regardless of what science may do, this principle is regarded as absolute (on the molecular level, especially, and the quantum level as well.) and CANNOT BE BROKEN OR AVOIDED.

It'll never happen.

Not to mention, I can't even remember all of my memories, so why should my clone be able to?

Originally Posted by jockeys

I kind of doubt it. Assuming we can make the embryo grow into a fullsize human adult body somehow (which is admittedly the easier problem) then we still have a serious problem with the brain.

Assuming that a physically identical brain (all the molecules and electric charges are identical) actually contains the same memories and stuff, which is a big assumption and in no way guaranteed to work, we still have the problem of mapping all the neurons so we can build an exact copy. Currently, mapping all the neurons exceeds the computational power of every single computer on the planet, running in unison for a thousand years. But, they make better computers all the time, so we'll skip that.

We still can't map the physical brain with the necessary level of detail because Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle makes it utterly impossible to do that without screwing up our map. Regardless of what science may do, this principle is regarded as absolute (on the molecular level, especially, and the quantum level as well.) and CANNOT BE BROKEN OR AVOIDED.

It'll never happen.

Well, maybe it's a class 1, or class 2 impossibility.


Scott

I think the holy grail of cloning would be to develop a non-human host for vital organs. The idea is to be able to transplant human tissue without the need for anti-rejection therapy which suppresses the immune system.

Lets say a pig that is somehow genetically altered to be more you than pig and can grow organs. But probably not limbs - that would be very weird. Then again the issue might come up regarding the rights of the pig - is it more human than pig...



Scott

Originally Posted by honedright

Then again the issue might come up regarding the rights of the pig - is it more human than pig...



Scott

Sometimes it's hard to tell



My attempts to derail this thread have failed. I think I will go have a ham sandwich now

Originally Posted by honedright

I think the holy grail of cloning would be to develop a non-human host for vital organs. The idea is to be able to transplant human tissue without the need for anti-rejection therapy which suppresses the immune system.

Hence my brainless "human" body idea. Now, how to get one to grow correctly without relying on a brain....someone else solve that one.