I saw someone sarcastically mention Roswell in a JFK conspiracy thread. It made me wonder who believes there are UFOs? Does anyone believe the Government is hiding facts about space aliens or UFOs? Please share your beliefs.
Printable View
I saw someone sarcastically mention Roswell in a JFK conspiracy thread. It made me wonder who believes there are UFOs? Does anyone believe the Government is hiding facts about space aliens or UFOs? Please share your beliefs.
I, having no firsthand information one way or the other, believe the government is hiding what information it may have about UFOs.
Do I believe they ACTUALLY have hard proof of the existence of extraterrestrials? Yeah, probably.
Would our beloved government hide anything from us, its beloved sources of revenue???:thinking: Of course it wouldn't!!!:rofl2: Truth in fleecing, I believe is what it's called.:roflmao
";"
come on, our gov't completely sucks at keeping secrets. they can't even cover up abu ghraib, you think they can cover up an intergalactic conspiracy? yeah right.
Is there was just ONE clear picture?...:shrug:
How did you get that picture of Lim-Nar with GW??? That picture was classified!Quote:
Originally Posted by hoglahoo
Chris L
Lee has been eliminated. Please continue as normalQuote:
Originally Posted by Chris L
- MIB
I am also into underwater photography. Booyah!
I admit it. I saw one in 1984. That is, I saw an unidentifed flying object. Imagine holding a stiff sheet of paper or cardboard in your hands by the two upper corners. Now rotate the sheet until it virtually disappears because the sheet is completely in line with the edge that is facing you and then continue rotating until your hands are holding the sheet by the bottom. At that point, move your hands to the top again and repeat. That is what I saw go across the horizon--a pulsating bright light that seemed to be rolling end to end rather than rotating on a central axis. The light got bigger and smaller in the same manner as that sheet of paper. I saw it as I was driving home early one morning stone sober and awake. I pulled over, got out of my car and watched it cross nearly overhead and it was visible for about 5 minutes. When it was closest to me, it was big enough that my two outstretched hands would not have been able to obscure it so this was not a small pinpoint of light. There was now sound from it. I have no idea what it was but it was in the air and it certainly was unidentified.
Could it have possibly been a triangular object rotating within a defined 3d space?Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
If we are somehow alone is this universe, i think its an awful waste of space. My uncle has this interesting theory that the first single celled organism were PUT here by our distant (few billion years) relatives and they are just circling the universe, colonizing different planets, until they will eventually return back to Earth and check up on us and see if we have made it.
But who knows. I just hope whoever comes to earth knows that here it's bring your own beer. And thats its always puff, puff, pass. Cause that right there could start a war.
My grandfather saw one but he did not like talking about it. When he was working for national railroad (a station master IIRC), during one night shift he saw a low flying slow moving object that he could best describe as a flying saucer (of course he was sober and alert).Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
I personally do not care and have no opinion, but it would be fun to see Elvis again.
Elvis who?Quote:
Originally Posted by sparq
i think there is prolly some other life in the universe, as evidenced by the drake equation:
Drake equation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
but i think if it's intelligent life it'll stay the hell away from us.
Of course by the law of prollabillitally I'd tend to be in agreeance. But what do you theenk Jesus would think about it?Quote:
Originally Posted by jockeys
Interesting, but I think the criticizm portion of the article about sums up my take on Drake's equation:Quote:
Originally Posted by jockeys
Quote:
Criticism of the Drake equation follows mostly from the observation that several terms in the equation are largely or entirely based on conjecture. Thus the equation cannot be used to draw firm conclusions of any kind. As T.J. Watson states:<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-12>[13]</SUP>
The Drake equation consists of a large number of probabilities multiplied together. Since each factor is guaranteed to be somewhere between 0 and 1, the result is also guaranteed to be a reasonable-looking number between 0 and 1. Unfortunately, all the probabilities are completely unknown, making the result worse than useless.Likewise, in a 2003 lecture at Caltech, Michael Crichton, a science fiction author, stated:<SUP class=reference id=cite_ref-13>[14]</SUP>
The problem, of course, is that none of the terms can be known, and most cannot even be estimated. The only way to work the equation is to fill in with guesses. [...] As a result, the Drake equation can have any value from "billions and billions" to zero. An expression that can mean anything means nothing. Speaking precisely, the Drake equation is literally meaningless...
Yes, there are space aliens here in the US. The government code word for them is: LIBERALS.Quote:
Originally Posted by icedog
I apologize, that was a cheap shot. :w
Now how can that be when we all know that Rush Limbaugh is Jabba the Hut?Quote:
Originally Posted by honedright
:thinking:
Yes I believe there is alien life (but not as we know it ;))
No, I don't believe there is a government conspiracy to cover it up. The government (any govermnet) is not able to kep even the little dirty laundry indoors. But they would be able to keep world changing news under wraps for decades, in a conspiracy that involves thousands ofpeople... not really.
Do I believe in UFO? yes. anything that is observed and not identified is a UFO. even the mundane can be a UFO.
Do I believe that an alien race has mastered intergalactic space travel in a way that also allows them to stay unnoticed AND spends a godawful lot of resources only to hover around in mostly unpopulated areas to pick up people with mental problems AND probe them in sexually tinted ways AND then leave unnoticed ... not really.
i will admit that i watched a Roswell documentary and found it very interesting. the people that lived there and had first hand accounts of what they saw where what really made me think. if anyone can find a documentary on it, it is well worth watching in my opinion.
do i believe in aliens. yes. do i think the government(whichever government, you pick) is covering up the evidence. yes. they have covered up many things in the past, when it was easy to do, now a days it would be harder but i wouldn't put it past them.
i would love to see a UFO. i think it would be scary but extremely exciting at the same time. i have an 8 inch reflector telescope that i get out every so often and check out the stars. very relaxing. it is crazy how many satellites are up there and can pass infront of your view. the moon is crazy.
Put me in the dis-believer category. Here's why.
I don't think there is intelligent life on any other planet in our solar system. If there isn't, then I don't believe there is any physical possibility of another civilization being able to traverse the vast amount of space it would have to travel from another solar system. We're talking waay too many light years away for physical travel to be possible. So I think it's really just a case that we're literally too far away from any other intelligent civilization for them to be able to visit the earth. (And if they did, why would they act in the type of goofy behavior that is routinely ascribed to "alien visitors"? And isn't it quite odd that after the advent of video recorders, there don't seem to be much around in terms of qualitiy citings caught oin video?)
Government cover up? I doubt it.
Unidentified flying objects? sure, but its anybodies guess as to whether they are aliens controlling these things or imagination, or real objects from earth never identified, Or any other number of possibilities.
Life on other planets or places in our universe? Why not? It is a big universe. We may never know for sure.
I don't think there's any government coverup, if aliens had the technology for interstellar travel than they would certainly have the technology to stay hidden. If there are aliens watching us than that's likely all they are doing, like a nature program.
I doubt they would want to interact with us, as I am not a lifeform capable of interstellar travel and yet I find human interaction quite boring and predictable most of the time, and all too often dangerous.
So maybe the lights in the sky are a bunch of interstellar Steve Irwins flying around sticking their fingers in our cloacas, but I doubt it.
Carl Sagan certainly believed that we are not alone. Billions and billions....
More and more exoplanets are being discovered, some suggesting the presence of life supporting elements, and now the Kepler mission, the possibilities are interesting.
The idea that we are the only occurrence of life in a vast universe of millions of galactic systems each containing millions of galaxies, seems a bit far fetched. Then, when one considers the possibility of multiple universes, the possibilities are even more mind boggling.
Breaking away from our anthrocentric tendencies, have you considered that we, in fact, are the extra-terrestrials relative to some other sentient culture somewhere else in the cosmos? Maybe they are wondering if we exist?
In the movie Jurasic Park, Jeff Goldblum's chaos theory character comments on the folly of bringing back creatures that were separated from man by 65 million years. Maybe there is a good reason that we are separated from other civilizations by 65 million light years? (Andromeda is only 2.5 million light years away, and closing...).
Something to consider.
Scott
I think there might be bacterial and possibly plant life elsewhere, but nothing beyond that. Certainly no intergalactic oppressors with unimaginable technology.
I believe in unidentified flying objects, having seen some weird stuff. However, I firmly believe the government or private companies working for the government are behind these. Can you say F-117?
That being said, if there are in fact aliens doing sexual experiments on humans, I hope and pray that they all look like Jeri Ryan.:w
Why not? Let's assume that there are billions of planet that harbor simple single or multicell life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Orange
That means that small animals are possible too.
That means intelligent life is possible too.
Now, they may not visit us, but that doesn't mean anything. We haven't alpha centauri either, but clearly we exist. And even if we get access to intergalactic space travel, it's not like we can go out and visit every single planet and say ''s up?!'
EDIT: as for technology. if you were to go back in time even a mere 200 years, could you realistically describe our technology to a person of that era?
Technological evolution is stil going exponentially, and it is safe to say that it wil have evolved dramatically by the time I retire.
So while it is human to say that 'we have now reached the summit', it's a false premise. It's simply a result of the fact that we cannot comprehend what still lies in waiting
Not so long ago, scientists were convinced that all of physics had been explained, and that it was now only a matter of formalizing and hammering out the details. And then that lone patent clerk comes up with relativety and suddenly we are back to square one. Then a couple of other blokes come up with quantum physics, which of absolutely no use at the time, but which has given us all the electronics that we have today.
Suppose an alien civilization started life as single cell orgs together with us.
If they retain 1000 years of head start (a pittance on a billion year scale) then by now, they wil be the intergalactic oppressors. or at least they could kick our ass if they found us :)
Are you certain? Could I not be a figment of your imagination? Or vice versa?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Hey, if this were my imagination at work, I would be king of the world, and surrounded by lots of scantily clad gorgeous women, willing to obey my every command. :D
Instead, I am on a message board, replying to a rapidly balding man :cry:
Hey! Don't talk about my head would you?:rant:;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Dude, that's rough...lol.:roflmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Sure it's a possibility (other intelligent life forms, not scantily clad women willing to do your bidding). I'm going to pull my American card here and say that as humans, we're the best it gets as far as intelligent life forms. I have no reasons except that I get tired of hearing about the aliens that must be better than us at everything. Now to go order around my scantily clad women...
To quote Ried Fleming, the World's Toughest Milkman, "I'm not bald! I get my hair cut this way."
so what if the other beings that are out there didn't have same emotions or way of thinking that we do? that would be stretch eh? considering they are from a different galaxy or universe. without the same level of emotions that humans have, would things not go much smoother, obviously we would need the same amount of intelligence, if not more. but without emotional attachments to food, spouses, death, success, etc. technology would probably evolve much faster. or was it emotion that started the need for technology in the first place?
there are too many variables as far as the evolution of a species goes, so to assume that the species would be a more advanced version of humans is kind of ridiculous isn't it?
the universe is large enough that we can describe it as infinite. we don't even understand everything on our own planet, so to say whether another race can possibly have traveled here is a bit of a stretch. i have no idea, i want to believe that its possible, but who knows. not me.
One way to think of the Universe is like soup. If you stir the pot and dip your spoon down into the soup, you'll pull up, let's say some carrots and a piece of chicken. Dip the spoon in again and more than likely you will get more of the same ingredients. You wouldn't expect to pull out some wildly different ingredient not normally found in your soup.
There is a vast diversity of life forms right here on earth. Some that live under what we would consider hospitable, others living under definitely inhospitable conditions. If I'm not mistaken, the current knowledge of the Universe is that it is fairly uniform. If you look at deep space photos of galaxies, they are fairly general in morphology. It seems that there are patterns, from micro to macro.
It's not a far reach to assume that what is going on in our part of the universe, is being repeated in other parts. I could be wrong.
Scott
The human mind is prone to delusion and hallucinations which always take the form of the culturally relevant mythology. The highly pious will 'see' the virgin Mary hovering in the sky, Hindus will 'see' Krishna, since the 1950's people in the west have 'seen' flying saucers. Using Ockham's Razor, the simplest answer is likely true, rather than supernatural sightings changing by time and place to suit the viewer, it is far more likely that such sightings are the results of delusion. I had such a delusion myself as a boy. I 'saw' a flying saucer outside my bedroom window. From what I now understand of the natural world, I accept this event as delusion or an hallucination.
As for the likelihood of alien life;
The Hubble telescope Deep Field image taken over the course of eleven days in 2004 reveals 10,000 galaxies in a small and formerly completely unremarkable patch of sky. How small? You'll need almost 13 million such images to cover the entire sky! Taken as an average, our galaxy is estimated to have between 500 billion and a trillion stars, which would indicate that there are something in the neighbourhood of 10,000,000,000,000,000,000, 10 sextillion, or 10 billion billion stars in the known universe!
The universe is expanding, but not only that, it is accelerating. At only 14 billion years old, but 75 million light years wide, the light from the centre galaxies will likely never be able to reach those on the outer rim.
Compounding this unfathomable size is the fact that all of the matter and energy in the known universe, all of the elements on the periodic table and all of the energy which is detectable to us, comprises only 5% of the mass and energy of the universe, the rest being dark matter and dark energy, so named because we yet know nothing about them.
With literally astronomical figures like these it is a virtual certainty that there is life and even intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. In fact there may be more worlds with civilisations than grains of sand on a beach, but in all likelihood, as others have said, "You can't get there from here".
X
But Jabba had Princess Leia....Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladerunner
The LIBS? Princess Pelossi.
:gaah::gaah::gaah::gaah::gaah:
What is will be! What is not, NEVER WILL :jedi:l
Well, it depends on your definition of the Universe. Then it is just simple maths.
1. Universe is Infinite:
We know there is life on Earth, so clearly there is a non-zero probability of *any* life in the Universe. If the Universe is infinite, then to maintain the non-zero probability of life there must be other life out there. In an infinite population you cannot have a non-zero probability on a single point mass. Alternatively, if you believe the Universe is infinite and there is not other life out there, then mathematically we have zero probability of existing here on Earth.
2. Universe is Finite, or Countably Infinite:
Is is mathematically plausible in this case that we are the only life in the planet, from a probability point of view.
James.
Definitely believe in UFOs, not sure if they are interstellar space craft but there are definitely things in our air space we cannot explain.
On the alien cover up front, if you think about it, the gov't isn't really so much covering it up as they are creating dis and mis information to confuse and cause skepticism. That's all they need.
There have been too many credible people, (airforce, astronauts, ex gov't employees, law enforcement, private citizens etc) who have sworn to seeing anything from dead alien bodies to reverse engineered alien spacecraft to just dismiss it. There have been enough incidents like Roswll, the lights over Phoenix, the crash in Western PA or Long Island that the government didn't really cover up. They simply created doubt either in the origin of the debris and accidents or the veracity of the witnesses.
The aliens next door assure me there is NOTHING "unidentified" about their flying vehicle.
Seriously though, while I do not know for sure if there is or is not extra terrestrial life, but I think it would be silly to think it is not possible. We have learned in other debates that no matter the probability against something occuring, theorists will justify it by adding either unlimited amounts of time or infinite opportunities for it to occur (abiogenesis anyone?). Why not just add more zeros to this one, to make it too possible.
I think if we are to believe there is extra terrestrial life, we cannot assume then, that it is (of course!) going to only be one-celled organisms, etc etc. We are kidding ourselves. I think this goes back to the belief that there can be no greater intelligence than our own. There is no basis for this.
So...while I have not met any extra terrestrials (for sure....anyway) I believe it is completely possible they exist. Nothing I've seen in theory (or even, for that matter, Biblically, if one wishes to bring the religious aspect in) discounts the possibility of it occuring.
Just add in an infinite number of planets...don't think it's possible yet? add in a few million more galaxies, the odds keep getting better...
I do believe the government could keep a big secret like this, incidentally. Abu Ghraib was mentioned earlier, but is a poor example, because it is not an example of a government secret, but the exact opposite.
Illegal activities were happening, and when some of the perpetrators decided to email photographs of their "festivities" the recipients then decided (oh so responsibly) not to involve the authorities, but the media instead. Of course, it was the story of the decade and these bright stars and their "fun" got America dragged repetitively through the dirt for years. The government, if not exactly happy about the events there, did not keep it or the trial a secret, either. The military attempt at openness was used against them to imply such things were commonplace, etc etc and the insurgency (and the media who fed on it) grew in boldness, as did those seeking to be elected by presenting the current system as a "failure" in any way possible. It's politics 101. Doesn't make it nice.
Fact is, there are secrets that are specifically military/national defense related but of neutral political value, and these typically are well kept (Area-51/the "box"/ the "container"/Groom lake facility.....exists yet no one REALLY knows what it is or is not even if many have *theories*)
and then there are some that can be used for political gain by one party or another, and in rare cases by individual politicians. The more serious secrets are limited to a few people, and if leaked it would be simple to find the traitor. Others, however....seem to be leaked at the earliest politically advantageous moment without regard to losses.
Stealth technology was kept secret for decades. Nuclear weapons? a decade. Sometimes nations even help their *enemies* keep secrets when it seems advantageous.
The Soviets and Chinese were shooting each other as late as the 1980's, but to hear it here in the U.S. they were both anxious to unload hundreds of ICBMs into small town USA and march in the paratroops, arm in arm as they took over. Likewise, while GI's reported contact with Soviet soldiers in Korea (fighter pilots) and Vietnam (radio intercept types) our government as well as theirs denied this happened. Saves that whole "why don't we fight the Soviets?" debate-something we prepared for but neither side REALLY wanted to happen outright.....and now, the Russians have confirmed both cases were true.
Quite a long time to keep a secret. So yes. I think it's possible. So long as one party or the other cannot make political gain by it, or a reporter a name for himself....and not everyone knows it.
John P.