Mozilla Thunderbird w/ addons is very similiar to outlook.
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Mozilla Thunderbird w/ addons is very similiar to outlook.
Absolutely fine by me. As long as comparisons are fair, and meaningful. Comparing installation times of a pretty bare bones Operating System to those of a full desktop environment is neither. Just as an example.Quote:
Originally Posted by commiecat
Profile, don't speculate. Survival Time | SANS Internet Storm Center; Cooperative Network Security Community - Internet SecurityQuote:
Originally Posted by commiecat
It seems to be to you. One wonders why.Quote:
Originally Posted by commiecat
I can't count how many times I've opened an MS document in MS Office and had the formatting all borked. Only, that's not supposed to happen. Were Microsoft to make its file format public, there would be no conversion problems. So the problem is not with OpenOffice, but with Microsoft. On a tangent, those broken MS Office documents usually opened ok in OOO. Well, duh.Quote:
Originally Posted by commiecat
I've successfully run heterogeneous corporate networks. In any event, open-xchange.com | now available in many languages would solve the problems you describe. And no, I am not recommending Exchange for production use.Quote:
Originally Posted by commiecat
Interesting. Your technical decisions are based on personal preferences, character judgement, and limited experience. Why does it not surprise me that Windows is your operating system of choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by commiecat
Absolutely. Knowing that someone with a grudge to bear, and a razor or two in his hands might be living round the corner adds an extra moment of excitement. Now then, what is that unmarked black van doing in front of my apartment?Quote:
Originally Posted by commiecat
Nice that you can't graph data after November 2008. But in November it seems that an unpatched Windows system would last a few hours, depending upon which day. That's far from "as soon as you put it on the Internet" and plenty of time to actually patch it, so thank you for validating my position.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeBerlin
I've had no such issues with Office '07. Must be you.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeBerlin
You said Evolution would play nice with Exchange. I was just pointing out that, last I checked, it actually didn't. Might be different now but Evolution still doesn't list support for Exchange '07.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeBerlin
Wow. This is the kind of vapid statement I'd expect from a Mac user. Let's get all snooty and personal over our operating systems and judge people we don't know. No surprise that you're a Linux user. Had an Atari computer, avid BBSer, went to PC and DOS/Win3, first BSD was FreeBSD 3, first Linux was RH 5.2. Yeah, my experience is limited oh great computer guru.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeBerlin
I don't mind friendly debate and have no issues saying "touché", but if this is gonna be a "Wow, you use Windows? What's it like being new to computers?" flame war then I'm out.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeBerlin
I think you are jumping to conclusions here. We were talking about home systems. How many of those will get patched before the attack happens?Quote:
Originally Posted by commiecat
As I said, profile, don't speculate. I had documents that would either not open, or were so broken that they had to be re-done in major parts. If you chose to ignore that these problems exist, that is fine. It is not, however, very convincing.Quote:
Originally Posted by commiecat
I just read Evolution: A New Outlook for Linux | Linux Magazine (registration required) and Novell Documentation, then connected to a company Exchange server. OWA is certainly not the fastest option available, but it works flawlessly.Quote:
Originally Posted by commiecat
But that is beside the point. The point was that because of Microsoft's licensing scheme, alternatives to MS products cannot be sensibly programmed. Case in point, interaction with a mail server. The problem is not with Evolution, it is with Exchange's undocumented API.
You seem to have omitted your original statement. Here it is again:Quote:
Originally Posted by commiecat
We can go on and on. I use BSD on occasion but Windows otherwise. I support a corporate environment. Linux is great for our web server and ERP server, but that's the only value I see. I don't like the GPL, I don't like the non-standard distribution, and I can't help but laugh at the Fisher Price naming scheme of Ubuntu. They should just call it "Baby's First Operating System".Personally, I find the last remark particularly interesting with respect to your previous remark.
I will not go into my personal computer history, but it is similar to yours, just add a few years. The difference maybe being that I chose to choose whichever tool works best for the job. I am completely impartial to the software I use, as long as it does its job, and is properly maintained. In the same vein, I would not call myself a Linux user. I do use Linux, obviously, but it is not my OS of choice. It gets many jobs done efficiently, including home machine for many of my friends. But that's about it. Linux does have sides I deeply despise and several technical aspects of it are painful. But I retain the right to point out flaws in comparisons.
A classical non sequitur.Quote:
Originally Posted by commiecat
I see a difference between making fun of Ubuntu's naming scheme and questioning a person's experience with whatever. I choose software the same way as you -- the tool that is best for the job is generally my personal preference. Well, one of your three listed reasons for my technical decisions was right.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeBerlin
Windows is best for me and it also happens to be the source of my livelihood. If a company wants to close their source code then that's their option and I'm fine with it. I don't blame them for incompatibilities with the open source world.
I have to say this is a nice touch. I burned a Ubuntu CD to try it out then forgot about it. Next time I booted I went off to do something, came back and there it was running Ubuntu. I chose not to install at the time, so I played with it for a while, using the Internet, looking through the Windows partitions and so on.Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeDubb65
Microsoft could take lessons from this approach.
Of course the reason Linux can be this easy is because it has to be, to persuade users it is worth trying.
Microsoft on the other hand, can happily continue providing obscene bloatware that is so insanely complex that only a handful of its own people have a true understanding of it.
I will probably always have Windows running on most of my machines, but thank God there is competition to force Microsoft to show some consideration to its customers.
ITYM Apple. Linux does not have to do or be anything (except from the perspective of a commercial vendor, which Ubuntu is not). It simply is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajagra
I doubt that even that is true, i.e. no-one really sees the big picture anymore. But you have to give Microsoft credit, too. They have been doing a rather decent job at securing their OS, and increasing its overall quality. If you compare Windows with what it was 5 years ago, and then again 10 years ago, you will find that they're on a good road. Personally, I see no reason whatsoever to use Widnows, but I appreciate that they have been trying to make the IT world a less horrible place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajagra
If Robin an others hadn't already pointed out all of your logical and technical fallacies, I'd have to spend half an hour responding to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by jockeys
as it is, there's only one or two things to point out.
Windows XP was released in 2002 or 2003.
Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron) Was released in 2008 if memory serves. (I'm now using 9.04)
That means that any serious comparison between the two is utterly pointless. You may as well compare Windows7 to Apple IIe, or compare OSX to DOS. It makes no sense to even engage in such a comparison.
Had you compared 8.04 to Vista, which actually would have been logical, you would have had a very different experience.
Also, unless I'm mixing your post up with somebody else's, I believe you went on for a bit about developing software in C#. I won't flame you for that. C# is great for what it's for. The problem is that "what it's for" is developing windows only applications in a windows environment. If you are a C# developer, you DEFINITELY fall into the "linux is not for everybody category" and I'm a bit surprised that you would have even bothered.
It's a bit like buying a PS3 so you can access your email from home. It just doesn't make any sense.
However, that doesn't mean that Windows has any meaningful advantage over linux for software developement. For C, C+, C++, Java and every other major programming language, there are a wide array of excellent IDEs and many command line tools as well for people who prefer to write code the old fashioned way.
a valid question. let me ask you... if I had compared ubuntu 5 or 6 to xp, do you think my experience would have been different? i ask in all seriousness.Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeDubb65
as I mentioned, a lot of the drivers I write are written in C or C++. none of the development tools I tried on linux (although to be fair, I hadn't heard of kdevelop so I didn't try it) came close to using visual studio to write C++ (which I do, and then compile it for whatever device with the appropriate compiler).Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeDubb65
also, you mention using command line tools for the old-fashioned experience. it's old fashioned for a reason. professional developers haven't written code that way since the 80s, and for good reason, it's very inefficient. also, I'd still like to see some collaborative tools for linux development, but if all the FOSS coders are as cheerful and Linus or Hans i can see why that's not the case :)
(note: that last part is a joke. i expect i'll still have an inbox of angry pm from linux zealots, but i thought i'd put up a disclaimer anyway :))
xp was released in 02...Quote:
Originally Posted by VeeDubb65
Ubuntu versioning (year).(month) 8.04 April 2008...
if i'm not mistaken, there is a release in april and another in octuber (.10)
for development in Linux you can use Eclipse or NetBeans...
Both support java/c/c++ and many other languages...
:)