Thread: Health Care in the USA

As you know there is a thread going on asking people outside of the USA their opinion on government sponsored or assisted health care. This thread is to give residents of the USA a chance to speak their mind if they have anything to say.

From my point of view the fact that the USA is only country in the industrialized world that does not have a government health care system is scandalous. In infant mortality per capita we are 33rd in the world and behind Cuba.

The pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies and some segments of the medical field are for profit ventures with the bottom line more important than providing adequate health care to all USA citizens.

I doubt if we will see a health care bill get through the congress and signed into law. The opposing forces are spending millions per day to politic against it. Meanwhile if you get become seriously ill in this country chances are you'll be bankrupt and lose all you've got if you're the average working stiff. Not a pretty picture.

It appears that other industrialized countries are doing just fine with a healthier longer living population due to their health care systems and we spend 2 1/2 times more than they do.

Thanks for posting this thread, Jimmy so we can voice our concerns, etc.

If a healthcare system is nationalized to some degree, I don't think any of us have to worry about emergent care. On the non-U.S. post you started initially we're seeing a lot of "I've never really had to use it but for minor things and I have no complaints" which makes sense to me since our membership, although diverse in age is still a bit on the younger side relatively speaking.

I pay a full 20% of my income for my and my family's health insurance in premiums and in deductibles. We have young children so in addition to paying premiums, we are having to pay our deductibles as well. Chimensh said I believe, he pays 50% in taxes. I'm about there with taxes, insurance and deductibles.

My biggest concern with government run health care is this: What exactly would the government decide would be reasonable and necessary care vs. what would be unnecessary and disallowed care in regard to the very sick and the elderly? How realistic could mandated Euthanasia be? What are some other "slippery slope" things that could affect the very lives of U.S. citizens if the government made decisions related to health? If you've got no other options that what the government tells you you can or can't have in regard to healthcare then you darn well better pray that your government is a loving, caring, empathetic, responsible body with the interest of each and every citizen within its borders in mind first and foremost. Oh, and I'll leave it to someone else to put about 10 of the LMAO smiley's after the underlined at the very thought.

Chris L

I don't know what the answer is. If a person has health care through their job and keeps it or if they are wealthy and can afford comprehensive health insurance outside of their employment I am sure they are satisfied with the USA system.

The sad fact is that the largest expenditure for health care here goes to keeping people alive in the last month or so of their life. I don't see a solution to that. Advanced technology comes with it's own set of problems. We can keep people alive longer but it costs more. I don't know what the answer is to that.

I think that people who talk euthanasia are putting up a paper tiger. Scare tactics. If it works in other countries it will work here. If it is true that the USA spends 2 1/2 times what other countries spend and they have as good or better care why wouldn't it work here?

The insurance companies are in business to make money and that is understandable. I don't hold it against them. We all want to get paid for what we do. As I say, I don't know what the answer is but for a large percentage of the population, maybe not the majority, it ain't working too well.

I'm a full time student and older than 25. Thus, I cannot get health insurance without paying ridiculous amounts of money. I'm seriously thinking about applying for AHCCSS (medicaid). If I wasn't young and healthy I would be seriously concerned.

I am sure those of you/us with health insurance from their employer are probably satisfied to some degree, but think of us poor schmucks with no employer to pay our health care costs. The same problem exists for those who are self employed. If I want to open a solo practice, health insurance is going to be a big concern and cost.

And on a purely economical note:
It makes absolutely no sense to not have a national health insurance program. The point of having insurance is to spread the risk around. Otherwise, we might as well just pay our own health care costs without insurance. Without a mandatory health insurance system, the healthy will not be paying their share of the risk. The healthy will opt out of any insurance if they have to pay for it. And with the rising costs of health insurance, more and more healthy, young people are not going to have insurance. And thats bad for us, because if we get into an auto accident or break a bone, or need stitches from a bad razor cut..... I think I painted the picture pretty clearly.

And from an insider's perspective:
When I was working on the billing side of an ambulance company, I remember Medicare paying the bills in a timely manner and with no questions asked. The private insurances always gave the company a hassle. As long as the form was filled out properly, Medicare would pay on time and the agreed upon amount. Same with Medicaid. That said, they would pay less than private insurance because the gov't mandated the prices they paid out. But the point is that the state sponsored health insurance was a better payor than the private insurance companies.
At least thats what I remember, I only worked there for 6 months.

In sum. I think it is shameful that we do not have at least national health insurance. We deserve free health care. It would actually be cheaper per person too. Because everyone would be paying for it through their taxes. However, since employers are the ones who would ultimately be saving, I'm not sure if the employees would actually see any of those benefits. But the mom+pop shops certainly would.

Originally Posted by Leighton

We deserve free health care.

We do?? Why?

Do we deserve free legal care too?

How do we "deserve" the professional services of others for free?

Originally Posted by honedright

We do?? Why?

Do we deserve free legal care too?

How do we "deserve" the professional services of others for free?

For those old enough to remember Gov Nelson Rockefeller saying,"There is no such thing as a free lunch." you'll undoubtedly agree. Somebody is paying for it.

The question isn't "free" health care as we all know it won't be free. The question is would it be to the advantage of the society as a whole to pay for health care for all rather than the every man for himself deal we have now.

Going back to the contention that in the USA health care costs 2 1/2 times what other countries spend..... if you look at the recent legislation that the last administration pushed through for prescription drugs .... where written into it was the clause that the pharmaceutical companies set the prices the government pays with no option to negotiate lower prices unlike our neighbors in Canada, it is no wonder that our costs are so much higher for the same or less..... makes me wonder whose interests our representatives of both parties are looking out for.

My biggest fear is letting congress into the exam room. There is so much room here for medical decisions to become political ones. There are so many opportunities for government to screw things up.

The observation about most $ being spent late in life (It is actually in the last 6 months) can lead to some unpalatable solutions like having some kind of criteria that marks someone is likely to die and denying services other than palliative ones. (ie, you can't have chemo, but you can have morphine).

When will assisted suicide become a billable procedure?

I can see people who are obese, smokers, alcoholics, or other self damaging behaviors having higher premiums.

Then there is the whole family planning/abortion issue. One group that thinks public money shouldn't pay for the termination of a pregnancy. Another that feels Dr's should be compelled to give the "morning after pill" regardless of personal convictions. This one is sure to be part of the debate once congress is involved. It may not have happened in other countries, but does any one here believe it won't happen in the US?

What about forcing Catholic sponsored hospitals to perform abortions?

What about coverage for chiropractic, homeopathy, therapeutic massage, nutrition supplements, acupuncture, colon cleansing, health club memberships, diet programs, yoga, meditation, etc. They will all be lining up with their hands out and it will not depend on what is proven by investigation or evidence, but on who has the best organized lobby.

Has congress ever done business any other way?

Is self-esteem of no importance?

Are we serving the poor by imposing charity upon them? or are they better off being self sufficient? Better to maintain a nation of needy, broken spirited people?

I value, and sleep better at night, paying my own way.

Originally Posted by honedright

We do?? Why?

Do we deserve free legal care too?

How do we "deserve" the professional services of others for free?

Someone want to pay for my house and car and gas? Anyone want to pay for my food and the clothing on my back? I mean after all without these things I will get sick easier and likely die sooner. Doesn't it behoove the government to make sure that I stay as healthy as can be? This would be the logical conclusion wouldn't it? Or maybe the truth of the matter is its all about the power of the government over the people. If they manage to pull this rabbit out of their hat they ( our government ) will have gained a significant amount of power over us. Unconstitutional power I might add.

This has nothing to do with our nations health and everything to do with our Governments incessant need to control every facet of our lifes! " Hey fatso, no more hamburgers for you." " Hey there middle aged man. You may no longer have a beer and watch the ball game on sunday. Instead you will run a mile a day." "Hey you, we cant help you with your constant knee pain as you ran 10 miles every other day which is contrary to the state recommended 5 miles every other day"...Ad infinitum

Now, for those of us in the future who don't buy the mandated insurance, will we be turned away at the doors of the emergency room? "What, no proof of insurance?" "Gidouddahere."

Now, say that an unfortunate soul was truly poor and could not afford the mandated insurance and dies right there on the doorstep of the ER, who pays for the funeral? I'm assuming that there will be a "final" expense clause in new omnibus unhealthy bill. Oh, oh, the guy who just croaked didn't have any "cost assumed by all" coverage.

Or will it still be as it is now that the non-covered will still get the ER care they walk in for, and the costs of that care will be properly inflated and re-inflated, and the passed on to whomever pays now: and that's us folks.

Likely not much will change, other than the fact it will cost a lot more because we will have to pay for that new, additional layer of administration, and care will be more rationed and slower, and the government will control your health records and make the info available to all but the insured.

Look at the highway infrastructure and tell yourself that the (any) government does things well and cheaply and promptly. And now transfer that careful scrutiny to the ripe and ready health care system and jump up and down in delightful anticipation that the same institutions will be putting your health care workers into a version of hard hats, steel toed boots, and chartreuse vests. And that those who will control the entire process will be the standers, leaners, pointers, and nodders we have all come to love.

Oh, the joy of it.