Social Security - Take it or leave it?

With the population curves going the way they do, I don't really expect to collect a single red cent from social security when I retire. Remember that you are not really paying for your pension but are actually paying for the pension of the previous generation... if you have more retired people than young active people, you have a problem. To be on the safe side, the good lady wife and myself both have a private pension fund on top of our respective state-run schemes.

However, in the last 8 years, one can't say that those private pension funds have done any better than the state-run ones. Our state-run schemes are heavily invested in T-bonds, which means they actually lost value due to the low USDxEUR/USDxJPY exchange rates. Our private-run schemes were heavily invested in the US real estate market to try and recover from the "dot bomb"... so basically two very hard resets in 8 years on that front.

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Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

You paid money into the system, I dont see the dilemma.

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To me it seems like the only reason anyone would not take the money would be if they did "believe in" the SS system. From each according to his ability...

Without going into a lot of explanation, and I could since I've been mulling this over in my head (but I'll spare you :)), it seems to me that the debt falls unfairly onto the shoulders of the wrong people (and that also includes those of us today who are funding the SS benefits of current recipients). Well, think of it, who is the true debtor, and who actually pays back the debt?

Also thinking of it in terms of a savings account (which I believe it was supposed to be similar to), but that plan obviously failed.

I was going to go into the Ponzi scheme angle of this (which I think it is hard to deny), but decided to leave THAT alone (oops, I guess I went there after all...)

It's a false choice. The ethics of the decision to accept the SS payment is independent of the ethics of the decision to make the payments in the first place.

Here's an restatement that I think brings this into better relief:

If you're mugged, and later meet the mugger in more advantageous circumstances and he offers to repay some portion of the money he took, do you refuse it because you don't condone the original theft?

some of you help me here. i believe the city of galveston, tx opted out of the SS system some time ago and the last i heard was the people had a lot more of a retirement fund than they ever dreamed (as much as 3 time more)

Get ready for a potential change in the rules next year after Congress finishes with healthcare. The total unfunded liability for social security and medicare is staggering as estimates are in the $60 to $75 trillion range. This needs to be put in perspective to our current national debt which is somewhere in the $10 to $12 trillion range.

I suspect the first group of changes will be eliminating the ceiling on social security taxed wages (to align with the treatment of medicare) along with a change in the full retirement age (which will impact the minimum retirement age). I also suspect will see some proposals dealing with means testing.

I don't agree with social security (the greatest Ponzi scheme ever devised), but since I was forced to pay into it for 30+ years I expect to get something out of it. Now if the government wants to give me all of the money they took and stop charging me (and my employer) I will gladly opt out.

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Originally Posted by 59caddy

some of you help me here. i believe the city of galveston, tx opted out of the SS system some time ago and the last i heard was the people had a lot more of a retirement fund than they ever dreamed (as much as 3 time more)

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I doubt it. No Govt entity can opt out of social security as it is federal law. The only one who can opt out is the Federal Govt. I'm retired from the Fed Govt under the old pension system and we never paid into Social security and even after retirement if I work and put in enough to get Social Security the law is designed to keep us from getting but a pitance. The newer system came in around 83 or so so federal Employees from that time pay into Social Security.

:soapbox:I hate the system, mainly because I am paying into it, but no one from my generation will ever see a penny of it.

Thanks baby boomers.

It's nothing personal, you understand.

with a little search i found it. just google social security in galveston, texas.
they did opt out in 1981. this was for county workers. also two other counties in texas also opted out. it can be done and according to records their return is as much as twice what we can expect from our current system.