Do you like our Social Security system? That's fine.
But what if you disagree with it? When it comes time to start collecting those SS checks, will you continue to be a participant? Or will you stick to your principles and tell Uncle Sam to keep it?
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Do you like our Social Security system? That's fine.
But what if you disagree with it? When it comes time to start collecting those SS checks, will you continue to be a participant? Or will you stick to your principles and tell Uncle Sam to keep it?
I'll partake because I paid into it.
There are many things I am forced to pay for that I don't think I should have to, and when I am offered the opportunity to recoup some of it, I do
Same here,
I'll take back what I can ,since no one asks me if I want in in the first place.
mo money, mo problems
I'd like to rid you of your problems for no extra charge (you won't have anything left anyway). I'll send you my paypal addressQuote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfast
With all due respect I find this to be such a bizarre question. Makes me wonder if we're from the same planet. Thank God that FDR was elected in '32.
Could you imagine if it had been 'W' ? Wait a minute .... he would have bailed out the banks and Wall St. and the great depression might not have happened. :hmmm:
It's just a question Jimmy, just a question.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
As to the answer, personally I'm not sure if I will take the check, assuming of course there is anything to take once I'm eligible.
As I see it, I wouldn't be taking the money back from the government, but from the paychecks of others. Just because others are doing that to me now (via the SSA), I'm not so sure I'd feel comfortable doing the same to others later.
I'm guessing you find that bizarre too.
Well I don't know how many years it will be before the time comes for you to make that decision but I hope that when the time comes you don't need the money.Quote:
Originally Posted by honedright
That's just it Jimmy. What if I do need the money? Do I compromise my morals and just take the money?Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
I suppose that's where the question came from. I was wondering where others stood on the issue.
Or maybe for others there is no issue.
You paid money into the system, I dont see the dilemma.Quote:
Originally Posted by honedright
With the population curves going the way they do, I don't really expect to collect a single red cent from social security when I retire. Remember that you are not really paying for your pension but are actually paying for the pension of the previous generation... if you have more retired people than young active people, you have a problem. To be on the safe side, the good lady wife and myself both have a private pension fund on top of our respective state-run schemes.
However, in the last 8 years, one can't say that those private pension funds have done any better than the state-run ones. Our state-run schemes are heavily invested in T-bonds, which means they actually lost value due to the low USDxEUR/USDxJPY exchange rates. Our private-run schemes were heavily invested in the US real estate market to try and recover from the "dot bomb"... so basically two very hard resets in 8 years on that front.
To me it seems like the only reason anyone would not take the money would be if they did "believe in" the SS system. From each according to his ability...Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfast
Without going into a lot of explanation, and I could since I've been mulling this over in my head (but I'll spare you :)), it seems to me that the debt falls unfairly onto the shoulders of the wrong people (and that also includes those of us today who are funding the SS benefits of current recipients). Well, think of it, who is the true debtor, and who actually pays back the debt?
Also thinking of it in terms of a savings account (which I believe it was supposed to be similar to), but that plan obviously failed.
I was going to go into the Ponzi scheme angle of this (which I think it is hard to deny), but decided to leave THAT alone (oops, I guess I went there after all...)
It's a false choice. The ethics of the decision to accept the SS payment is independent of the ethics of the decision to make the payments in the first place.
Here's an restatement that I think brings this into better relief:
If you're mugged, and later meet the mugger in more advantageous circumstances and he offers to repay some portion of the money he took, do you refuse it because you don't condone the original theft?
some of you help me here. i believe the city of galveston, tx opted out of the SS system some time ago and the last i heard was the people had a lot more of a retirement fund than they ever dreamed (as much as 3 time more)
Get ready for a potential change in the rules next year after Congress finishes with healthcare. The total unfunded liability for social security and medicare is staggering as estimates are in the $60 to $75 trillion range. This needs to be put in perspective to our current national debt which is somewhere in the $10 to $12 trillion range.
I suspect the first group of changes will be eliminating the ceiling on social security taxed wages (to align with the treatment of medicare) along with a change in the full retirement age (which will impact the minimum retirement age). I also suspect will see some proposals dealing with means testing.
I don't agree with social security (the greatest Ponzi scheme ever devised), but since I was forced to pay into it for 30+ years I expect to get something out of it. Now if the government wants to give me all of the money they took and stop charging me (and my employer) I will gladly opt out.
I doubt it. No Govt entity can opt out of social security as it is federal law. The only one who can opt out is the Federal Govt. I'm retired from the Fed Govt under the old pension system and we never paid into Social security and even after retirement if I work and put in enough to get Social Security the law is designed to keep us from getting but a pitance. The newer system came in around 83 or so so federal Employees from that time pay into Social Security.Quote:
Originally Posted by 59caddy
:soapbox:I hate the system, mainly because I am paying into it, but no one from my generation will ever see a penny of it.
Thanks baby boomers.
It's nothing personal, you understand.
with a little search i found it. just google social security in galveston, texas.
they did opt out in 1981. this was for county workers. also two other counties in texas also opted out. it can be done and according to records their return is as much as twice what we can expect from our current system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by honedright
It is still a false choice - because your decision to accept repayment does not affect his decision to mug that second person (he's already mugged that person by the time you catch him and the repayment offer is made). Or back to the actual question - your decision to accept social security payments will not affect the goverment's decision to collect SS taxes from your grandchildren.
Yes, I see your pointQuote:
Originally Posted by mparker762
I personally have paid into my own super annuation since I began working at age 15, as I did not fancy the prospect of surviving on a meagre government handout when I retired.
Even our government realised over a decade ago that there will not be the number of people working in the future to support the aging population so they brought in compulsory super annuation, wether it,s with the company you work for or a private scheme is up to you. Basically they are telling you that you will be looking after your own retirement financial plans. They have also raised the mininum retirement age to 65 for people born after 1964 and also there is now no upper limit on retirement age. So if you can not provide for your own retirement you will proberlly have to just keep on working till you drop or quallify for a disability pension.
So in answer to your question, no I won,t be standing in line waiting for my subsistance cheque, I plan on doing more than just eating and sleeping when I retire.:D :beer1:
You paid into it. So where is all that money you paid?Quote:
Originally Posted by hoglahoo
I believe it is gone. It was taken from you and given to someone else. If it's gone how can you recoup any of it?
It isn't gone, it's still a number in their system. I get letters annually telling me how many numbers they've collected from me which subtract from my quality of life now. You don't think my employer actually sends them cash do you?Quote:
Originally Posted by honedright
I'm taking it. I paid in, I'm going to take it out.
Big assumption is that the social security system is still afloat when I reach retirement age, which I highly doubt. It's amazing that Bernie Madoff goes to prison for 150 years for his ponzi scheme, which defrauded people of $64.8 billion, but the government holds a gun to our head to fund their ponzi scheme, which is defrauding the American People of Trillions, and if we don't fund it we go to prison. Create your own ponzi = prison. Don't fund the government's ponzi = prison.
Lee at 71 you're still working ? :thinking:Quote:
Originally Posted by hoglahoo
Hey Jimmy! Thank God for the future and its time machines! Yes, I'm still working. The retirement age is now 110, but since we get all the free healthcare we want, we're living to 150 so it's all good. Well, break's over, gotta run!Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
PS thanks for willing me your hone collection many, many decades ago on SRP :D
No, no, no...Quote:
Originally Posted by hoglahoo
You're employer sends them hope and change, hope and change...
Keep saying it over and over...hope and change
And then take the BLUE pill
Oh yeah - wash that pill down with a big swig of kool-aid
When I came out of college it was the early 90s and things were a little tough then. I must have applied for dozens of jobs as a new graduate over a 6-month period and got nowhere. I was about to start flipping burgers when I was lucky enough to get a break.
During that time, I collected the dole. It wasn't much, but it helped a huge amount. Moreover, as a college grad, I had not paid into the system as such.
I knew I would have a career one day, and so I knew I would pay it back. Needless to say, I've probably paid hundreds of times what I claimed, but I don't mind one bit. The system helped me out in a tough time, so I'm completely committed to ensuring others benefit as I did.
I am very grateful that we have a social security system.
(Declaration: I am not a commie.)
Well, it began as voluntary, and then is was not. It had a small contribution and now it does not--it's large. It used to be in a fund all by itself to assure the money would be there for all generations, and now it is not. I have thousands into it, and I don't think I will get a dime back. I just want my money back. I don't need interest; I just want all my principal back. I can take care of myself.
I think if you've paid into social security (whichever country you happen to be living in) then you have every right to take out of it.
If, like a number of people seem to be doing in the UK, you are contributing nothing then I dont see why you have any right to benefit from that safety net.
The idea behind social security is a good one, that it will support you in times of dire need such as unemployment or health issues. Where its gone wrong is that it is too easy for people to take advantage and use the welfare as a way of life, rather than as short term support.