Thread: Social Security - Take it or leave it?

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Well I don't know how many years it will be before the time comes for you to make that decision but I hope that when the time comes you don't need the money.

That's just it Jimmy. What if I do need the money? Do I compromise my morals and just take the money?

I suppose that's where the question came from. I was wondering where others stood on the issue.

Or maybe for others there is no issue.

Originally Posted by honedright

That's just it Jimmy. What if I do need the money? Do I compromise my morals and just take the money?

I suppose that's where the question came from. I was wondering where others stood on the issue.

Or maybe for others there is no issue.

You paid money into the system, I dont see the dilemma.

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

You paid money into the system, I dont see the dilemma.

To me it seems like the only reason anyone would not take the money would be if they did "believe in" the SS system. From each according to his ability...

Without going into a lot of explanation, and I could since I've been mulling this over in my head (but I'll spare you ), it seems to me that the debt falls unfairly onto the shoulders of the wrong people (and that also includes those of us today who are funding the SS benefits of current recipients). Well, think of it, who is the true debtor, and who actually pays back the debt?

Also thinking of it in terms of a savings account (which I believe it was supposed to be similar to), but that plan obviously failed.

I was going to go into the Ponzi scheme angle of this (which I think it is hard to deny), but decided to leave THAT alone (oops, I guess I went there after all...)

It's a false choice. The ethics of the decision to accept the SS payment is independent of the ethics of the decision to make the payments in the first place.

Here's an restatement that I think brings this into better relief:

If you're mugged, and later meet the mugger in more advantageous circumstances and he offers to repay some portion of the money he took, do you refuse it because you don't condone the original theft?

some of you help me here. i believe the city of galveston, tx opted out of the SS system some time ago and the last i heard was the people had a lot more of a retirement fund than they ever dreamed (as much as 3 time more)

Originally Posted by 59caddy

some of you help me here. i believe the city of galveston, tx opted out of the SS system some time ago and the last i heard was the people had a lot more of a retirement fund than they ever dreamed (as much as 3 time more)

I doubt it. No Govt entity can opt out of social security as it is federal law. The only one who can opt out is the Federal Govt. I'm retired from the Fed Govt under the old pension system and we never paid into Social security and even after retirement if I work and put in enough to get Social Security the law is designed to keep us from getting but a pitance. The newer system came in around 83 or so so federal Employees from that time pay into Social Security.

Originally Posted by honedright

No, I don't think that's it at all.

Refinement of the restatement:

If you're mugged, and later meet the mugger in more advantageous circumstances and he offers to repay some portion of the money he took, and he must mug another person in order to repay you, do you refuse it because you don't condone the second theft?

I think that better states the case.

It is still a false choice - because your decision to accept repayment does not affect his decision to mug that second person (he's already mugged that person by the time you catch him and the repayment offer is made). Or back to the actual question - your decision to accept social security payments will not affect the goverment's decision to collect SS taxes from your grandchildren.

Originally Posted by mparker762

It is still a false choice - because your decision to accept repayment does not affect his decision to mug that second person (he's already mugged that person by the time you catch him and the repayment offer is made). Or back to the actual question - your decision to accept social security payments will not affect the goverment's decision to collect SS taxes from your grandchildren.

Yes, I see your point

With the population curves going the way they do, I don't really expect to collect a single red cent from social security when I retire. Remember that you are not really paying for your pension but are actually paying for the pension of the previous generation... if you have more retired people than young active people, you have a problem. To be on the safe side, the good lady wife and myself both have a private pension fund on top of our respective state-run schemes.

However, in the last 8 years, one can't say that those private pension funds have done any better than the state-run ones. Our state-run schemes are heavily invested in T-bonds, which means they actually lost value due to the low USDxEUR/USDxJPY exchange rates. Our private-run schemes were heavily invested in the US real estate market to try and recover from the "dot bomb"... so basically two very hard resets in 8 years on that front.