Swine flu martial law in MA

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10-08-2009, 04:21 AM
sparq

Swine flu martial law in MA

Do you approve a bill that gives state officials absolute powers over citizens in cases of "health emergencies"?

Massachusetts Act Relative to Pandemic: A Constitutional Abomination

Quote:

According to the Act, the Governor of the State of Massachusetts may declare a state of emergency. There is nothing new there and every state governor has that right and authority. The difference in the case of Massachusetts is the actions that the Health Commissioner can take during a declared state of emergency.

The Act allows the Governor to deploy whatever forces he or she deems necessary to control the environment. Once on-site, the Act gives control over law enforcement and National Guard forces to the Health Commissioner to use as he/she sees fit without restriction. There are clauses which allow for:

1. the restriction or prohibition of the assembly of people,
2. arrests without warrant or judicial process,
3. forced investigative entry into premises without a warrant,
4. seizure and destruction of property with only a rubber-stamp process,
5. disposal of human remains without consideration for dignity, spirituality, or morality (the law makes religious provisions a mere option to the government).
6. the seizure and use of private property without process of law,
7. immunity of civil and criminal liability for officials acting under the Act,
8. restrict or stop in and outbound travel to an area declared to be in a state of emergency,
9. the Health Commissioner to issue orders of arrests without warrant or any judicial review or process.
10. the Health Commissioner to issue orders that are enforceable as law without judicial review, legislative process, or the Governor’s endorsement.

The Act renders absolutely no restrictions on the extent to which the Commissioner may utilize the state’s resources, and forces. The Act allows for a state of emergency to last only ninety days. But, the emergency declaration can be extended for an indefinite number of ninety day extensions by the Governor.
10-08-2009, 04:37 AM
Doc

that's insane!!!!!!!!!!
10-08-2009, 06:20 AM
Bruno

Insane, perhaps, but also some good sense.

Like the disposal of human remains for example. Yes, it is cruel to the survivors. Otoh, if people are dying of something nasty (say ebola or something equally nasty) then the main concern is to halt the spread and to make sure it stays contained.

At such times, I think survival trumps religious niceties (no offense to whatever religion would apply).

Restrict or stop outbound travel: another point of common sense. If there is an outbreak of something nasty, the last thing you want it for people to flee and go to their family in the big city. Again: survival by containment trumps your right to travel as you wish in case of medical emergency.

And if the person in charge of the crisis needs to have something shut down, turned off or on, or moved out of the way, I think it is important he can do so without having to quibble with the owner if it would affect containment or spread of the disease.

Of course, everything should be open and information should be issued as much as possible. People are contained not because they are criminals, but because the spread of disease has to stop.
10-08-2009, 06:56 AM
v76

Theoretically makes sense but I think that this pandemic is a bit overblown, so far. It is not ebola, nor marburg or anything like that. Seasonal flu makes more victims every year. The authorities are definitely trying to contain the pandemic, since the worst is probably to come this winter. Still, the WHO declared the outbreak to be a pandemic, but also noted that most of the illnesses were of moderate severity.

I'm pretty sure I got it in September 2008 (the strain has been around for a while) and while the worst flu I ever got, wasn't much different from the usual. But I hadn't got it in years... mainly from basic hygiene rules... that's still the best prevention. I'm not sure how much a vaccine for a virus that mutates so fast would be effective.
10-08-2009, 07:05 AM
Bruno

Of couse, for swine flu this is over the top. Totally.
It's just that in case of emergency, I think this type of martial law makes sense to guarantee survival.
10-08-2009, 07:09 AM
Doc

I think arrest without warrants seizing property and illegal search is going over the top.
10-08-2009, 07:11 AM
v76

Exactly. It may be good to have, in case the pandemic and aggressiveness of the strain degenerates into something extreme, but I can't agree with it on an ethical level. I see the abolition of citizen's rights as highly risky and open to abuse... another 911, without falling into the conspiracy theories. Maybe they'll send you to Guantanamo if you cough at the store now?

Also, the "without restriction" part is very scary... when the only restriction is actually unrestricted in the law itself (Referring to the duration of the state of emergency)!
10-08-2009, 07:26 AM
majurey

Clearly they are thinking ahead to the imminent global zombie outbreak.
10-08-2009, 08:14 AM
northpaw

In the case of a real, dangerous pandemic, these are exactly the measures I'd expect the authorities to take - whether bills had been passed beforehand or not. In fact, protecting the citizenry during such a crisis would be one of the most legitimate reasons for a government to exercise its power, in my humble opinion.

Failing to do enough would have far worse consequences (and provoke much more criticism after the fact) than being overly proactive.
10-08-2009, 09:54 AM
Bruno

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc

I think arrest without warrants seizing property and illegal search is going over the top.

I think, if ebola breaks out, it is not a bad idea for the national guard or whomever to be able to check your trunk to see if you are smuggling out little susie who is not feeling too well.

Again: speaking only about cases comparable to ebola, plague, etc.
10-08-2009, 03:28 PM
thebigspendur

Everyone is thinking of this in relation to the Swine Flu and of course this is rediculous however if some illness sweeps through the population and people start dropping like flies the healthy will be demanding such things and then it will too late to start talking about it.
10-08-2009, 03:39 PM
Bruno

The thing with distaster recovery is this: if you don't have everything planned out up front, the plan itself is a disaster.

's like backup and recovery scenarios at network or server level. if you haven't done all the talking, thinking and preparing up front, then you will be in even deeper doodoo when things go pear shaped.
10-08-2009, 03:58 PM
ChrisL

I assumed the government either already had this type of authority, or would certainly act in the manner described should, as others have stated, a true and wildly deadly communicable disease started to quickly ravage the population.

The conspiracy theorists already believe the government is shoring up for some such thing. Surfing Youtube recently I came across some footage where people filmed thousands of above ground concrete remains boxes stacked two high in long rows and with room enough in each box for many bodies. There were separate people who posted such footage on youtube from IIRC Illinois or Indiana and Georgia? It could simply be very well thought out and carefully planned prudence on the part of the government should something ever happen.

Then, conspiracy theorists also chew their fingernails over the fact that billionaires like Ted Turner have said publicly that in his opinion, the optimum world population in the best of all worlds would be 300 million people.

Project extermination or reduction? Meh, I'll just continue to keep on keepin on.

Chris L
10-08-2009, 05:20 PM
Sailor

As such this act feels insane or over-reacted, but what this text doesn't say that surely these clauses wouldn't come in effect all at one time. Only when necessary to stop things turning worse.
Every modern state has plans made for various uncommon situations, that is no big deal.
Surely this doesn't mean that as the first cases of dangerous disease is detected, your Nation Guard starts to "arrests without warrant or judicial process" etc. It's only when the situation gets worse. In the modern state all actions performed by auctorities must have an reasonable cause, even in a state of crisis.
Of course for the conspiracy theorists these this kind of text is real candy. They see things how they like it to be seen.
10-08-2009, 05:23 PM
Brother Jeeter

The possibility of such power and authority being wielded against Americans is scary!
10-08-2009, 06:04 PM
northpaw

You must remember that half of the people out there have below-average intelligence. Personally, I'd rather not subject my family to the consequences of the brilliant plans each of them might hatch for dealing with some doomsday virus.
10-08-2009, 06:47 PM
krisbarger

I do not want to fight with anyone and there are a lot of smart people on here that I respect, however this is something that has been coming for a while. Fear is a weapon in and of itself. The swine flu is not as bad as they have hyped it.

Governments have killed more people than plagues and Swine flu ever will. Need remind you of all the genocides throughout history. Do not be fooled to think that it can not happen here or will not happen here.

These are examples of crazy people with access to too much power. I am not saying our current pres or our next one will do this. Who stands to gain from martial Law? The person who gets to declare it. Read directive 51.

Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50)
49-78,000,000
Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39) 23,000,000 (the purges plus Ukraine's famine)
Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945) 12,000,000 (concentration camps and civilians WWII)
Leopold II of Belgium (Congo, 1886-1908)
Hideki Tojo (Japan, 1941-44) 5,000,000 (civilians in WWII)
Ismail Enver (Turkey, 1915-20) 1,200,000 Armenians (1915) + 350,000 Greek Pontians and 480,000 Anatolian Greeks (1916-22) + 500,000 Assyrians (1915-20)
Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000
Kim Il Sung (North Korea, 1948-94) 1.6 million (purges and concentration camps)
Menghistu (Ethiopia, 1975-78) 1,500,000
Yakubu Gowon (Biafra, 1967-1970) 1,000,000
Leonid Brezhnev (Afghanistan, 1979-1982) 900,000
Jean Kambanda (Rwanda, 1994) 800,000
Suharto (East Timor, West Papua, Communists, 1966-98) 800,000
Saddam Hussein (Iran 1980-1990 and Kurdistan 1987-88) 600,000
Tito (Yugoslavia, 1945-1987) 570,000
Fumimaro Konoe (Japan, 1937-39) 500,000? (Chinese civilians)
Jonas Savimbi (Angola, 1975-2002) 400,000
Mullah Omar - Taliban (Afghanistan, 1986-2001) 400,000
Idi Amin (Uganda, 1969-1979) 300,000
Yahya Khan (Pakistan, 1970-71) 300,000 (Bangladesh)
Benito Mussolini (Ethiopia, 1936; Libya, 1934-45; Yugoslavia, WWII) 300,000
Mobutu Sese Seko (Zaire, 1965-97) ?
Charles Taylor (Liberia, 1989-1996) 220,000
Foday Sankoh (Sierra Leone, 1991-2000) 200,000
Michel Micombero (Burundi, 1972) 150,000
Slobodan Milosevic (Yugoslavia, 1992-99) 100,000
Hassan Turabi (Sudan, 1989-1999) 100,000
Jean-Bedel Bokassa (Centrafrica, 1966-79) ?
Richard Nixon (Vietnam, 1969-1974) 70,000 (vietnamese civilians)
Efrain Rios Montt (Guatemala, 1982-83) 70,000
Papa Doc Duvalier (Haiti, 1957-71) 60,000
Hissene Habre (Chad, 1982-1990) 40,000
Chiang Kai-shek (Taiwan, 1947) 30,000 (popular uprising)
Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20) 30,000 (dissidents executed)
Francisco Franco (Spain) 30,000 (dissidents executed after the civil war)
Fidel Castro (Cuba, 1959-1999) 30,000
Lyndon Johnson (Vietnam, 1963-1968) 30,000
Hafez Al-Assad (Syria, 1980-2000) 25,000
Khomeini (Iran, 1979-89) 20,000
Robert Mugabe (Zimbabwe, 1982-87, Ndebele minority) 20,000
Rafael Videla (Argentina, 1976-83) 13,000
Guy Mollet (France, 1956-1957) 10,000 (war in Algeria)
Harold McMillans (Britain, 1952-56, Kenya's Mau-Mau rebellion) 10,000
Paul Koroma (Sierra Leone, 1997) 6,000
Osama Bin Laden (worldwide, 1993-2001) 3,500
Augusto Pinochet (Chile, 1973) 3,000
Al Zarqawi (Iraq, 2004-06) 2,000

Yep, I did copy and paste these number from a website that tracks these things. Please don't think me as crazy. I am a functioning member of my city. But, I am worried about the attack on my privacy and liberty for some gain of so called security. I am more scared of my government than any flu or terrorist.

I guess you guys can go get my tin foil hat now :o
10-08-2009, 07:44 PM
honedright

Can't let an opportunity like a piggie flu crisis go to waste....
10-08-2009, 07:53 PM
Seraphim

Anybody else out there think that major pharmacutical corporations stand to make big bucks from flu vaccines, especially if the media has hyped things beyond all reason?

Chicken pox was an annoyance, now it is a government mandated vaccine for children. Hmm......let's see now, every kid born nowadays must recieve this vaccine, how many hundreds of thousands of doses does that make for? CHA-CHING!

:td
10-08-2009, 09:06 PM
gssixgun

I look no farther than my office door...

Honestly people in general are stupid, or so self involved that they really don't care about anyone else's health....

I hate, Sickies, you know who you are too, yer the A$$ that coughs all over, sneezes all over, that comes to work or school sick because you are so damn self centered that you think that the world will collapse if you stay home...
So if it takes an act of Congress and the National Guard to put your dumb sick butt in bed more power to them....

Can you guys tell everyone here at work is sick, but me????
I hate them all, stay home where you belong, you sickies....

So yes I can see in Pandemic emergencies, the need to enforce quarantines and even worse...
10-08-2009, 09:18 PM
maplemaker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Anybody else out there think that major pharmacutical corporations stand to make big bucks from flu vaccines, especially if the media has hyped things beyond all reason?

Chicken pox was an annoyance, now it is a government mandated vaccine for children. Hmm......let's see now, every kid born nowadays must recieve this vaccine, how many hundreds of thousands of doses does that make for? CHA-CHING!

:td

If they'd just name it H1N1Y2K the money would pour into their coffers faster than it could be counted. Swine flu, indeed. The weakest flu we've seen yet.
10-08-2009, 10:32 PM
thebigspendur

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Anybody else out there think that major pharmacutical corporations stand to make big bucks from flu vaccines, especially if the media has hyped things beyond all reason?

Chicken pox was an annoyance, now it is a government mandated vaccine for children. Hmm......let's see now, every kid born nowadays must recieve this vaccine, how many hundreds of thousands of doses does that make for? CHA-CHING!

:td

I wouldn't be so quick to poo poo childhood diseases like chicken pox and mumps and measles. I had all three when I was a kid and I caught measles from my brother when I was 2 years old. I almost died from it.
10-09-2009, 01:18 AM
Seraphim

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I wouldn't be so quick to poo poo childhood diseases like chicken pox and mumps and measles. I had all three when I was a kid and I caught measles from my brother when I was 2 years old. I almost died from it.

Measles is much different than the chicken pox, is it not?
10-09-2009, 10:12 AM
Bruno

Quote:

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Honestly people in general are stupid, or so self involved that they really don't care about anyone else's health....

So yes I can see in Pandemic emergencies, the need to enforce quarantines and even worse...

+1

outbreaks still occurr. small outbreaks of plague still happen in china. If something similar happens in the west, the only thing that will stop it is strict quarantaine. Such is not the time to start debating whether the guard can inspect your trunk, or force you to stay inside the quarantained zone.
10-09-2009, 10:23 AM
Bruno

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Measles is much different than the chicken pox, is it not?

Yes. Measles can kill. Chickenpox is just annoying.
The problem is if you don't get them as a kid, you risk getting it as an adult / teenager. And that can kill you, or at least bring you to death's door. I know 1 person to whom it happened. Got it when she was 16. Nearly died.

My kids got the measles vaccin. For chickenpox we were too late. They only give the shot after the first year. Both got it close to their first birthday.
With each of them I held them in my arms throughout the entire first night, trying to soothe them.

If they get it mild in their first year, they run a risk of not producing enough antibodies, so a shot after their first year is still a good idea in that case. Both my girls got it very bad. A rough estimate was 500 - 1000 sores. It was -not- a pretty sight. Luckily, neither of them got big ones in their face. My oldest had a couple small ones in inconspicous locations near the hair line, and those are still pits.

People sometimes say that pharma companies are into it for the money. Of course they are. It's why any business is in their game. Thing is vaccinations is what caused smallpox, polio, the coughing death (don't know what it is called in English) and other nastiness to disappear.
10-09-2009, 01:22 PM
sparq

Quote:

Originally Posted by gssixgun

So if it takes an act of Congress and the National Guard to put your dumb sick butt in bed more power to them....

So Glen, how would you feel if your governor decided that all citizens of Idaho need to be vaccinated against H1N1, declared a status of health emergency and vaccinated you and your family against your will?
10-09-2009, 01:32 PM
Slartibartfast

I think this comes down to 2 things.

1) Some people dont have sick days

2)The mentality in America is that unless you are dead, you should be at work. Most employers make you feel guilty if you take time off due to illness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Honestly people in general are stupid, or so self involved that they really don't care about anyone else's health....

I hate, Sickies, you know who you are too, yer the A$$ that coughs all over, sneezes all over, that comes to work or school sick because you are so damn self centered that you think that the world will collapse if you stay home...
So if it takes an act of Congress and the National Guard to put your dumb sick butt in bed more power to them....

Can you guys tell everyone here at work is sick, but me????
I hate them all, stay home where you belong, you sickies....

So yes I can see in Pandemic emergencies, the need to enforce quarantines and even worse...
10-09-2009, 01:39 PM
sparq

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

I think this comes down to 2 things.

1) Some people dont have sick days

2)The mentality in America is that unless you are dead, you should be at work. Most employers make you feel guilty if you take time off due to illness.

Have you read that damn thing???
10-09-2009, 02:30 PM
Doc

yeah like at School in you miss more than 6 days you fail the class So.........I am not going to fail!
10-09-2009, 03:10 PM
Seraphim

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparq

Have you read that damn thing???

Dammit, what happened to Slarti's damn post about not reading that damn thing?
10-09-2009, 03:27 PM
Bruno

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparq

So Glen, how would you feel if your governor decided that all citizens of Idaho need to be vaccinated against H1N1, declared a status of health emergency and vaccinated you and your family against your will?

I cannot answer for Glen, but if I am allowed to replace my name with Glen's: if H1N1 was a killer, I would be all for forced vaccination.

In case you don't remember: this was how we got rid of smallpox, polio and other nasties. and some people then didn't like it either and fought it teeth and nail. Some people still fight against the mandatory polio (and other) shots. We should be thankful that the governments then had the balls to go forward with mandatory vaccination. It's the reason you don't have to worry about smallpox as a significant risk.
10-09-2009, 03:34 PM
Seraphim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruno

I cannot answer for Glen, but if I am allowed to replace my name with Glen's: if H1N1 was a killer, I would be all for forced vaccination.

In case you don't remember: this was how we got rid of smallpox, polio and other nasties. and some people then didn't like it either and fought it teeth and nail. Some people still fight against the mandatory polio (and other) shots. We should be thankful that the governments then had the balls to go forward with mandatory vaccination. It's the reason you don't have to worry about smallpox as a significant risk.

As it stands now, H1N1 is simply a flu, like many others.
10-09-2009, 03:50 PM
MichaelP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphim

As it stands now, H1N1 is simply a flu, like many others.

So was the first round of the previous big A H1N1... the second round was less friendly.
10-09-2009, 05:23 PM
gssixgun

First off:
Rights are rights and don't tread on mine, but who are you guys kidding here???
Lets be realistic if the Governor of Idaho (we would probably be the last state in the union no doubt) declared a health emergency there better damn well be one... Assuming that there was a true emergency, you and everyone else would be pushing yer way to the front of the line for a vaccine...

I already had my seasonal flu shot just a week ago, the boss here pays for them every year and our family members for $5 each if they want to get one too...

We are set up for the H1N1 vaccine when it becomes available too...

Now if by chance I saw this as a conspiracy to grab rights or control like all you "I see black helicopter" guys out there....:rofl2::rofl2:

I know our one little road, in our little corner of North Idaho, is armed too the teeth...:gwh::gwh::gwh:

The reverse is true also, we very well could shut down our little corner and be totally self sufficient for as long as it takes for an actual dangerous outbreak to pass by... I know to many of you that live in the cities, that sounds like survivalist talk, but up here it is just the way it is... You really can be cut off without power and access to the highway, overnight, for upward of 2 weeks, any winter....So you are always ready...
10-09-2009, 10:57 PM
gssixgun

ps:

16 Kids Die of Swine Flu in 1 Week

By MIKE STOBBE
, AP
posted: 1 HOUR 18 MINUTES AGO
comments: 125
filed under: Health News, National News

Text SizeAA A
<SCRIPT type=text/javascript>switchFont(1,"smallText");</SCRIPT>

ATLANTA (Oct. 9) - Health officials said Friday that 76 children have died of swine flu in the U.S., including 16 new reports in the past week — more evidence the new virus is unusually dangerous in kids.
The regular flu kills between 46 and 88 children a year, according to Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data.
10-09-2009, 11:53 PM
Seraphim

I'm still not panicing.

They'll have to do better to really scare me.
10-10-2009, 03:00 AM
krisbarger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruno

I cannot answer for Glen, but if I am allowed to replace my name with Glen's: if H1N1 was a killer, I would be all for forced vaccination.

In case you don't remember: this was how we got rid of smallpox, polio and other nasties. and some people then didn't like it either and fought it teeth and nail. Some people still fight against the mandatory polio (and other) shots. We should be thankful that the governments then had the balls to go forward with mandatory vaccination. It's the reason you don't have to worry about smallpox as a significant risk.

Some info I stumbled across
Facts disagree
Here are some facts... With sources

HISTORICAL FACTS EXPOSING THE DANGERS AND INEFFECTIVENESS OF VACCINES

- In 1871-2, England, with 98% of the population aged between 2 and 50 vaccinated against smallpox, it experienced its worst ever smallpox outbreak with 45,000 deaths. During the same period in Germany, with a vaccination rate of 96%, there were over 125,000 deaths from smallpox. (The Hadwen Documents)

- In Germany, compulsory mass vaccination against diphtheria commenced in 1940 and by 1945 diphtheria cases were up from 40,000 to 250,000. (Don't Get Stuck, Hannah Allen)

- In the USA in 1960, two virologists discovered that both polio vaccines were contaminated with the SV 40 virus which causes cancer in animals as well as changes in human cell tissue cultures. Millions of children had been injected with these vaccines. (Med Jnl of Australia 17/3/1973 p555)

- In 1967, Ghana was declared measles free by the World Health Organisation after 96% of its population was vaccinated. In 1972, Ghana experienced one of its worst measles outbreaks with its highest ever mortality rate. (Dr H Albonico, MMR Vaccine Campaign in Switzerland, March 1990)

- In the UK between 1970 and 1990, over 200,000 cases of whooping cough occurred in fully vaccinated children. (Community Disease Surveillance Centre, UK)

- In the 1970's a tuberculosis vaccine trial in India involving 260,000 people revealed that more cases of TB occurred in the vaccinated than the unvaccinated. (The Lancet 12/1/80 p73)

- In 1977, Dr Jonas Salk who developed the first polio vaccine, testified along with other scientists, that mass inoculation against polio was the cause of most polio cases throughout the USA since 1961. (Science 4/4/77 "Abstracts" )

- In 1978, a survey of 30 States in the US revealed that more than half of the children who contracted measles had been adequately vaccinated. (The People's Doctor, Dr R Mendelsohn)

- In 1979, Sweden abandoned the whooping cough vaccine due to its ineffectiveness. Out of 5,140 cases in 1978, it was found that 84% had been vaccinated three times! (BMJ 283:696-697, 1981)

-The February 1981 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association found that 90% of obstetricians and 66% of pediatricians refused to take the rubella vaccine.

- In the USA, the cost of a single DPT shot had risen from 11 cents in 1982 to $11.40 in 1987. The manufacturers of the vaccine were putting aside $8 per shot to cover legal costs and damages they were paying out to parents of brain damaged children and children who died after vaccination. (The Vine, Issue 7, January 1994, Nambour, Qld)

- In Oman between 1988 and 1989, a polio outbreak occurred amongst thousands of fully vaccinated children. The region with the highest attack rate had the highest vaccine coverage. The region with the lowest attack rate had the lowest vaccine coverage. (The Lancet, 21/9/91)

- In 1990, a UK survey involving 598 doctors revealed that over 50% of them refused to have the Hepatitis B vaccine despite belonging to the high risk group urged to be vaccinated. (British Med Jnl, 27/1/1990)

- In 1990, the Journal of the American Medical Association had an article on measles which stated " Although more than 95% of school-aged children in the US are vaccinated against measles, large measles outbreaks continue to occur in schools and most cases in this setting occur among previously vaccinated children." (JAMA, 21/11/90)

- In the USA, from July 1990 to November 1993, the US Food and Drug Administration counted a total of 54,072 adverse reactions following vaccination. The FDA admitted that this number represented only 10% of the real total, because most doctors were refusing to report vaccine injuries. In other words, adverse reactions for this period exceeded half a million! (National Vaccine Information Centre, March 2, 1994)

- In the New England Journal of Medicine July 1994 issue a study found that over 80% of children under 5 years of age who had contracted whooping cough had been fully vaccinated.

- On November 2nd, 2000, the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) announced that its members voted at their 57th annual meeting in St Louis to pass a resolution calling for an end to mandatory childhood vaccines. The resolution passed without a single "no" vote. (Report by Michael Devitt)
10-10-2009, 03:25 AM
joscobo

Reminds me of Moses' law where they would take similar liberties and leave the infected outside the community.
10-10-2009, 03:40 AM
treydampier

This is very interesting. In the Northeast US this would probably be smart and work since there are soo many people stacked on top of one another. Desparate times also call for desparate measures. I also agree with Glen that sick people should stay home if at all possible, but some people have to work to keep their jobs, so this is a predicament. I will say this though if the government seizes property in NY, or MA then people there are relatively unarmed and would not be able to stop this. However, the number of dead government officials in the rural areas of the US who tried to unlawfully enter homes would be soo staggering that the pandemic would be less dangerous than going into someone's home or taking there property.
The beauty of this is, that rural areas rarely have to deal with these pandemics because unlike cities, there aren't as many people to quarantine,and plus there are fewer foreigners visiting that would want to spread a disease purposefully in these locations.
THe best thing of all is that with my future profession I will neck deep trying to save the victims (unless its ebola where I am trying to stay alive and help quarantine). But, even in that scene the government nor anyone else will ever unlawfully break down my door or take my property indefinitely without many bullets flying with deadly purpose.
Lets hope and pray that something so serious never hits because the US government is so corrupt now that there would be no way for them to effectively control anything.

I think we'll survive, humans are pretty good at that!
10-10-2009, 03:45 AM
treydampier

The truth is that polio still exists because of vaccinations not being given in third world (mostly African) countries. But, I completely agree that if everyone would vaccinate like i will with myself and children, we would all be better off. However, this chicken pox stuff is way out of line unless the person has not had it by about age 13. Before then, let nature take its course. The morality of society is such that now, kids are born to mothers that pass on terrible diseases that make many kids unable to fight infections and as a result they have to get vaccinated for unusual stuff, so hence everyone else has to as well. Plus the fact we are sterilizing kids has literally made allergy rates and numbers of sickly kids sky rocket.
Let your kids play in the dirt and have fun OUTSIDE the house. They will be better for it.

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