A Health Care Scenario

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Originally Posted by 59caddy

i want the very best

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What on earth suggests to you that at the moment you are getting the very best? You're not.

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Originally Posted by treydampier

I have a question though. Where in the world is the care better? Certainly not the UK, maybe they have more availability and the care equal, but certainly not better. It seems to me the Europeans and UK folks want the US to be like them. Why?

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Certainly not better? Proof?

Maybe because we think this system is better, and you're looking and changing yours to be similar to ours - so, perhaps those in control of your country think it's better as well.

Also, there are many countries around the world with a better health care record than the US. Cuba, I think, is out ranking you, for example.

'I mean, we don't desire to be taken by the Germans and YES, that would have happened were it not for the US and Russians coming to the rescue, twice I might add.'

Taken by the Germans? what? Still, if you can deduce what would have happened had you not become involved, and how that would have influenced every thing else after then you are obviously a much more intelligent man than me.

I really don't understand why you wouldn't want the powers that be in your country not to look to others for advice. You are not insular.

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Originally Posted by gregs656

What on earth suggests to you that at the moment you are getting the very best? You're not.

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you may not be getting the best, but i am living proof of the best care that can be had.

wow. I can't have a discussion with any one so intent on having an international willy waving contest, sorry.

I said its not personal. its little more than a joke to me at this point. Yes, we have idiot politicians with the Republicans being slightly dumber than Democrats, but its going to be fine even if we become like the UK. I will just pay my doc privately and everyone else can wait in line. I personally don't wave my willy so if you were waving your because of me, then I take the blame.
Sorry,

This is my last post on this subject. I am truly sorry if I offended anyone. I was seeking perspective, not an argument or debate on who is better than who. I will not start another one because it can't seem to stay on topic with me being the most guilty. I just wanted perspective on the original scenario, not a debate on socialized health care.
Best Regards,
Leland R. Dampier III
AKA Trey

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Originally Posted by 59caddy

yes, if you take off all the government taxes added to a gallon of gas for projects that have massive cost overruns, then we would have cheaper gas. every way you look it is another tax. the CBO and the house even say it will cost over 1 trillion over the next 10 years. you do not seem to get it, we cannot afford anymore outlandish spending on ANY program now. we need to get runaway gov't spending in control and balance the budget and then and ONLY then will i ever entertain any more massive gov't programs.

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First, I was pointing out how ridiculous it was to bring up the fact that a postage stamp used to be five cents.

Second, our national debt is currently almost $12T. Our occupation of Iraq has been something like $700B. American citizens spend $2T/year on health care and the current proposal has explicitly said that the $100B/year cost you cited would be fully paid for at the end of the ten years and will not add a single cent to our deficit.

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Originally Posted by commiecat

First, I was pointing out how ridiculous it was to bring up the fact that a postage stamp used to be five cents.

Second, our national debt is currently almost $12T. Our occupation of Iraq has been something like $700B. American citizens spend $2T/year on health care and the current proposal has explicitly said that the $100B/year cost you cited would be fully paid for at the end of the ten years and will not add a single cent to our deficit.

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yeah and if you are that dense to believe those figures then i feel sorry for you. show me one, just one government outlay that has not gone far and above what it was projected.
go back and see what medicare and medicaid were supposed to cost and then look at the numbers for today and it is several times higher and still climbing. these idiots in D.C. cannot even get that program under control. what makes you think they can even get near to controlling almost one seventh of our economy????
if you read the CBO reports it plainly states that the only way to make this deficit neutral is to raise taxes drastically and cut benefits to us the consumer. the CBO is bipartisan so i do not want to hear about party politics here. this is a massive program that will boggle the mind in no time.
we here in tennessee have what is called tenncare and that is basically using the clinton blueprint for healthcare. it is bankrupting the state and has massive cost overruns and benefits are being cut every month, trying to keep the thing going. several other states have such programs that are also draining the state budget and sending taxes up and causing deficit spending.
so tell me just again just how lucky we are going to be when this kicks in for all of us.

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Originally Posted by 59caddy

yeah and if you are that dense to believe those figures then i feel sorry for you. show me one, just one government outlay that has not gone far and above what it was projected.
go back and see what medicare and medicaid were supposed to cost and then look at the numbers for today and it is several times higher and still climbing. these idiots in D.C. cannot even get that program under control. what makes you think they can even get near to controlling almost one seventh of our economy????
if you read the CBO reports it plainly states that the only way to make this deficit neutral is to raise taxes drastically and cut benefits to us the consumer. the CBO is bipartisan so i do not want to hear about party politics here. this is a massive program that will boggle the mind in no time.
we here in tennessee have what is called tenncare and that is basically using the clinton blueprint for healthcare. it is bankrupting the state and has massive cost overruns and benefits are being cut every month, trying to keep the thing going. several other states have such programs that are also draining the state budget and sending taxes up and causing deficit spending.
so tell me just again just how lucky we are going to be when this kicks in for all of us.

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The answers to my questions are always "the government is bad!" and never explain why our existing system is superior to the rest of the world. It seems to me that the only reason people are against health care reform is because Obama wants it, and he's a democrat and we can't possibly agree on anything.

From the CBO:
http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=10689&type=1

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Originally Posted by page 2

CBO and JCT estimated that the proposal approved by the Committee on Finance would result in a net reduction in federal budget deficits of $81 billion over the 2010-2019 period, and that H.R. 3962 would result in a net reduction in federal budget deficits of $104 billion over the same period.

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Originally Posted by page 5

The proposal includes still other provisions that would not affect the government's outlays or tax expenditure for health care -- and thus not affect the federal budgetary commitment to health care -- but that would reduce budget deficits by about $167 billion over the next 10 years.

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Originally Posted by page 5

Putting together the roughly $85 billion increase in the budgetary commitment to health care and the roughly $167 billion in deficit reduction from other provisions yields an estimated net reduction of roughly $81 billion in budget deficits between 2010 and 2019, as noted above.

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I'm over this for now, though. We need health care reform and a public option, and when it passes we will all benefit by having more options, lower costs, and more coverage.

I am sorry but the CBO came out with at $1.2 trillion figure just yesterday for the new 2000 page POS. That is only one issue. After the 2012 election there will not be any private plans allowed.....nada! I don't what another government controlled and mandated program that just gets more money every time they run over budget from the taxpayers.

Get a clue Katrina was a mess because the government ran it, not who was president. Oh....look at H1N1 we all ought to have the chance to get the vaccine by when???????? about the time 10K people have died and it is in full swing......another program the government overseeing.

All this for approximately 7 million uninsured people? Just buy them all Cadillac insurance at $6000 a year, that would only amount to $42 billion a year we would be money ahead. There is a good side to all this though. I can sue the government if they screw up.... nice!


Later,
Richard

it matters not who is in power in D.C....they have proved time and time again they cannot and will not reign in spending and balance the budget and get congress's house in order and now some want them to control even more money. what kind of thinking is that? just spend, spend, spend and more spending without even thinking or caring about what it is doing to us as taxpayers and what it will cost our children, grandchildren and great grandchildren. all i hear is GIVE ME WHAT I WANT NOW, i do not care or give a hoot what it will do to this nation as a whole just as long as i get what i want. what happened to the statement "WHAT IS GOOD FOR THE COUNTRY"
even JFk said "ask not what your country can do for you, but what i can do for my country"
it is time for the greed and corruption of both parties to come to a halt and we the people take back this country and get things in order.
"THE GOVERNMENT IS FROM THE PEOPLE, NOT FROM THE GOVERNMENT TO THE PEOPLE" the sooner we get back to that way of thinking the better. it is time for common sense to take hold and maybe we can still save what little good there is left to save and get on with our life, liberty and the pursuit of justice/happiness:soapbox::rant:
read the founding documents of this great nation and most of all live it, love it or leave it:deal: it does not guarantee healthcare and every other social engineering program that is being shoved down our throats.