Islam: The religion of peace????

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

When I see the Iman's preaching and speaking to tolerance, then I will be put at ease... But I don't see that, I see Death death death....

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You know, Glen, I didn't even realize there's a mosque nearby, or that you were actually going there to listen to the Imam's preaching :p
You surprise me everyday ;)

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

We are just now starting to see the emergence of peaceful Muslim's

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It is possible, I haven't lived here all that long, but my country having about 7% muslim minority I've seen plenty of peaceful muslims for as long as I remember... I've also shared an apartment with two for a year and have worked with many more for a decade and my observations are actually the opposite, the radicals and wackos in my life have been christian, or atheist.

Goodnight guys, I had fun. Next time there's a discussion like this I'll know when to shop on ebay. :tu

OK Folks I have been watching this thread all day long we have made it through over 100 posts with no major flare ups... lets try and keep the discussion going with out any while those of us on this side of the planet sleep...


Hmmmmm Why do I think that the wacko Atheist remark was directed toward me :)

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Hmmmmm Why do I think that the wacko Atheist remark was directed toward me :)

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Nice try, but too late, we have your written confession that you're a radical muslim. And with all your guns I'd say we all better pray to our respective gods, or lack of such, that you don't turn into a terrorist :)

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

I don't believe I was including "All" Muslims...

I realize that some were, but I don't think I did...

But I will say that unless the Moderate Muslims stand up and make them selves heard just as loud a the fanatics then I will see only the angry face of Islam...

When I see the Iman's preaching and speaking to tolerance, then I will be put at ease... But I don't see that, I see Death death death....

We are just now starting to see the emergence of peaceful Muslim's

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Sadly G, can't hold your breath for that one. Because the ones looking to rule only tolerate the existence of the moderate and peaceful muslims as window dressing to put peoples guard down until they are in a position to do whatever they want, and when they get there that's exactly what they do - whatever they want to. Take any country where Islam is the rule. As has always been it is done by the sword, by force. As many people know, they don't have the same set of principles that are tradional in places like America. Example, earlier this year in the news one country was reported on in regards to their improvement on human rights (I forget which one right now, though I want to say Saudi Arabia) and one of these 'improvements' was that if a woman 'claimed' to have been raped then under the new statutes in order to be believed she only had to have 2 male witnesses that were present when the crime, where before she had to have 5, technically that is an improvement but by standards here it is just absurd. Those in authority are very notorious for having a very much bully type mentality, take any country where Islam is the rule, once they are in power they are like tyrants and then the peaceful and moderate muslims if they haven't already realized it now know that they were just 'used' and sadly end up living quite possibly the rest of their life in fear, not to mention that when they get in power they will institute Sharia Law as is currently starting to happen (according to news reports) in areas of Europe and the U.K. where they are becoming the dominant population. Here is a very very small example of the bully and 'we don't give a flip about you or your laws' mentality that the 'bully' muslims have, recently at the Arab Fest 2009 in Michigan, and notice the second video at a table that they are selling stuff for scholarship fundraising, imagine if anyone sold a t-shirt like that with the flag of any Muslim country on it, this 'should' fall outside the bounds of tolerance -

YouTube - Arab Festival 2009: Sharia in the US

YouTube - Arab Fest 2009: Hate Messages in Dearborn

Ok, time for me to step into the ring. I've tried to bite my tongue while reading this, but have now failed.

I'm sorry, but reading this thread, the sheer amount of bigotry, generalisation, and wilful forgetfulness in this thread is stunning. I am a weak atheist or an agnostic (it's a very thin line between the two). I was baptised Anglican. I attended a Catholic primary school, my parents attended a Methodist Church when I was a child, and I attended a private Presbyterian high school. I have friends from countries where there is a sizeable Muslim population (e.g Malaysia), and friends who are Muslim themselves. All of them are lovely peaceable people, and have nothing bad to say against Islam. I asked several of them what their thoughts are on terrorist attacks, and they universally condemned the terrorists, saying that they are taking small parts of the Q'uran out of context, and using them as justification for heinous acts (much like the Westboro Baptist Church, who condemn homosexuality based upon a passage in Leviticus, yet ignore all the other requirements of Leviticus, including food, clothing, hygiene etc).

Clearly, my Muslim friends are not the violent people that the news would suggest, yet here is an entire thread of people - whom I enjoy talking about shaving with - who are attacking my friends for being Muslim, despite them also not condoning the actions of a small group of Muslims.

Yes, Islamic extremists do make it onto the news a lot for suicide bombings, IED attacks, ridiculous Sharia laws (Leviticus, anyone?), terrorism, or shooting up a military base, like yesterday. However, the reason that all Muslims seem to be vicious evil murderers, is simply because the reality makes far less interesting television. The Comoros (98%), Tajikistan (97%), Bangladesh (89%), Guinea (85%), Indonesia (86%), Malaysia (60%), Lebanon (60%), and Kazakhstan (57%) are all countries where the majority of people follow Islam. How often do they make it into the nightly news broadcasts for horrific violent attacks? Surely if Islam was such a violent religion we'd expect to hear about suicide bombings in the Comoros Islands almost daily. Most Muslims are polite, quiet, hardworking people, just like you or me. This doesn't make for particularly exciting evening news however, so the actions of a small minority must make up the space. 23% of the world's population is Muslim, only ~10% less than the number of Christians in the world, yet this vast number of Muslims are not killing everyone, as would be expected if they truly were a religion of hate and violence.

Maoism has created the Shining Path, ETA, the Communist Party of India (Maoist), GRAPO, and the Kurdistan Workers' Party, to name just a few. Furthermore, Mao is believed to have regularly slept with young girls, just like Mohammed, although evidence on this is shaky. Yet he is not condemned like Mohammed, despite sparking violence with his teachings.

The sad fact of the matter is that all religions have their wackjobs, and Islam is no exception. Jews in Israel shoot unarmed Palestinian civilians. Hindus in India burnt Christian buildings and killed Christians. Hindus and Sikhs killed each other back in 1984. In America, Christian groups picket the funerals of soldiers and talk about everyone who does not hate homosexuals will burn in hell. Roman Catholics crusaded to the Middle East nine times, each time killing thousands upon thousands of non-Christians.

All demographics have their own wackjobs, clearly. And amongst the biggest nutters, it's not just Muslims who commit terrorist attacks either. Catholic and Protestant violence in Northern Ireland involved the shooting and bombing of soldiers, police stations, supermarkets, and more. Christians and Jews have their own terrorist groups. Christian extremists have bombed abortion clinics and killed abortionists in America. Sikhs have their own extremist group aiming to create their own country through armed struggle. Timothy McVeigh was Catholic. Surely by now people can see that it's not just the Muslims who have their extremist wackos?

Islam could be considered a religion of hatred, but in order to be fair, Christianity, Sikhism, Judaism, and Maoism should also be classified as a religion of hatred - they've done just as much through minority groups, they just haven't had the press coverage.

Mods please, this bigoted thread has gone on long enough. Delete or lock it and let us get back to the real reason that we're here - discussing that sexy 9/8 Ellis wedge with the french point in rosewood that's just been bought by some lucky bugger.

I'm not sure what this thread is really about. What began as a discussion of a tragedy wrought by one disturbed individual at Fort Hood (where my son is stationed by the way -- thank God he's safe) has become an attack on a group that like many groups, has a violent faction to it and a discussion of religion as a cause of war. All wars are fought for the same purpose. Power. Religion is often used to incite the masses. So is patriotism. To blame a particular group is to sow the seeds of hate and play right into the hands of those who want to gain power over that group. One of the things that I've always found uplifting about this forum is the tolerance of divergent ideas and preferences. Yes, this discussion has remained civil. But I must admit that I find some of the statements about Muslims and Christians alike to be inflammatory. It is human nature that causes conflict. No belief system has sole ownership of the darker corners of our nature.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Ahhhhh
Name one...

The true problem with religion in general is it separates people, it dehumanizes those that don't believe the same as you...

"My God is better then your God" has killed Billions...

It also gives an excuse to take...

But this thread is about Islam not Religion so I will back it down a notch...

Islam is just a perfect example of what can go wrong with Religious Power

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True. Although I've worked together with several muslims, and their attitude towards their religion was as diverse as that among Christians.
Most of them applied their beliefs to themselves and simply ignored the more radical parts of the koran, just like there are many Christians who happily ignore the parts of the bible they don't agree with. Live and let live.

And then there were a couple who were pretty radical in their attitude attitude to women, but seemed to have no problems with ignoring the parts in the koran about e.g. alcohol.

Religion is a personal thing, and how we perceive religions (incl Islam) depends on our context. For Americans, it is easy to see Islam as a violent and oppressive religion. Having grown up in a region that was literally ruled by Catholicism until not so long ago, the difference between Christianity and Islam is po-tay-to po-tah-to in my eyes.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

I think that it is pretty much an accepted fact that there is no Religion that is without blood on it's hands...
at least I can't think of one...

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I might be blissfully ignorant here. But I don't know of any war started by Buddhists to promote the religion.

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Originally Posted by ndw76

I might be blissfully ignorant here. But I don't know of any war started by Buddhists to promote the religion.

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I believe that is right too,
But I wasn't positive, I only know of self immolation by the Buddhists as protest to war, I am not real positive of the early histories of their Religion...
We do think that Buddhist monks started the Asian Martial arts at least that is the accepted history...So there might have been warfare back in their history too... I am not positive but I bet now that we brought it up somebody will know....