This thread ought to be a doozie.

These threads really create a lot of very strong feelings for what I would consider a light hearted forum. I'm not sure what the intent of the original poster is, but my guess, from the title of the post, would be to stir up a hornets nest.

There seems to be at least one post like this going at all times.

I'm not going to participate in them anymore. I come here to relax. I'm here to discuss razors, related issues and some light conversation.

Threads like this are a good way to divide what could and should be a tight knit community.

Just my 2 cents.

Jesus is the son of God, and is part of the Holy Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

My personal belief is that Jesus is the son of God and therefore is not God. This just makes logical sense in my head is all.

As leadduck says, there are three persons in one God, and its really up to your own interpretation as to how you think of each of those persons.

I've always seen it as God is the Father, then Jesus and the Holy Spirit were fathered/ created by God.

Its one of those things with no real wrong or right answer, just a very difficult question..!

Good thread!

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Originally Posted by Miner123

I'm not sure what the intent of the original poster is,

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I think there's an evil plan behind all this.
Never before this christmas i haven't spent so much time thinking about religions and such things.
And i call myself an atheist :dropjaw:

my own thoughts are that most of these types of discussions are just a basic attempt to besmirch Christians and what they believe, veiled in what seems to be an open debate. example: everyone will zero in on catholic priests for their indecent relations with young boys, without ever thinking about the great good the church may have done over history(yes i know there are other faults, so don't even go there) Christians have done a lot of good things down through time(yes there have been mistakes, so do not go there either)
mostly it is another attempt to bring further hate towards the religious Christian people of this country. it is also mostly brought about by highly educated, holier than thou Christian haters(i will not mention any names here, you know who you are)
some say that my religious freedom ends with their right to not believe. i have never encountered someone trying to force another to believe and attend church or convert. Christians believe it is up to the person to decide whether to accept Christ or not.
i am in complete agreement with miner123 about this site and the forums on here. i come here to learn from other members about the joys of straight shaving and believe we should remain a close knit "band of brothers". i know some of you have seen me get involved in many debates on here about politics, global warming, religion and so forth and i stick to what i believe in and what i have been taught. i am open to change my mind "IF" i can find sufficient proof to validate a change, but not before.
furthermore if the "conversation" part of this site would to go away, it would not hurt my feelings at all. i come here to learn from the advice of others on straight shaving and things involved with that practice.

I believe Jesus is exactly who He claimed to be.

The book of John begins: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. All things were created through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was created that has been created.
John 1:1

It continues:The Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We observed His glory, the glory as the One and Only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14

The book of John is the testimony of the Apostle John written to the gentiles (Those who were not Jews)


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<!--EndFragment-->He told the Pharisee's : “I assure you: Before Abraham was, I am. John 8:58 That's why they wanted to stone Him because to them this was blaspheme (claiming to be God).



In John 10 24:30....:

Then the Jews surrounded Him and asked, “How long are You going to keep us in suspense? If You are the Messiah, tell us plainly.” “I did tell you and you don’t believe,” Jesus answered them. “The works that I do in My Father’s name testify about Me. But you don’t believe because you are not My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. The Father and I are one.”

Have you ever heard of a doubting Thomas? This is where that statement comes from.: But one of the Twelve, Thomas (called “Twin”), was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples kept telling him, “We have seen the Lord!”But he said to them, “If I don’t see the mark of the nails in His hands, put my finger into the mark of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will never believe!” John 20:24&25.

After 8 days Jesus appeared to them again: Then He said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and observe My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Don’t be an unbeliever, but a believer.”

Thomas responded to Him,“My Lord and my God!”

Jesus said, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed.Those who believe without seeing are blessed.” John 20:27-29

I use just the book of John because it makes it easier for someone to check my references if they choose to.

In the Old Testament (King James Version Because I needed to pick just one) the Lord is God, the Lord thy God, or some form of this term is present 1132 times in 292 sections. In the new testament 98 times in 30 sections. The statement "Lord and Savior" speaking about Jesus occurs 23 times in 9 sections also.

Jesus is either exactly who he claims to be or the biggest scam ever. I haven't even touched on fulfilled prophesy, changed lives or all those who have been martyred claiming Jesus is God. One other thing, do you know what the charges were that crucified Him? For the Romans it was sedition, For the Jewish leaders it was blaspheme (Claiming to be God).

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Being Christian=being Christlike and I am far from Christlike.

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This statement is a misconception. By the way , we are all far from "Christlike". Being Christian is a life surrendered to His Lordship. Confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus.......

So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.
Acts 11:26 Disciple = Student

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Originally Posted by 59caddy

furthermore if the "conversation" part of this site would to go away, it would not hurt my feelings at all.

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nobody is making anybody to read any thread or post on this forum.
if one chooses to exercise their free will to read something they just have to live with the consequences of that choice.
of course, if somebody conducts themselves in a manner not appropriate for this place they can be given a time to reflect.
however i notice that there are people who aren't very good at distinguishing the difference between disagreement or difference in opinion and insult. fortunately they don't make the calls either.

I actually started this thread because this is a question that pops into my mind alot. Sh!t stirring was not my intention.
To the Mods: Please shut this thread down if you believe it will cause serious problems that you would rather not deal with.
To those that answered my question , I thank you. I understand these are deeply personal issues and deeply held beliefs sometimes not easily expressed.

My question was and still is in earnest if anyone else wishes to answer in this thread or in private.

Even if the intent of the thread was to besmirch Christianity, I don't know that the moderators have a responsibility to close it. As long as the discussion is held in a gentlemanly fashion, it's allowed, and those who wish not to participate are free to not do so

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Originally Posted by JMS

My question was and still is in earnest if anyone else wishes to answer in this thread or in private.

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I believe that Jesus is as much God as the Father and the Holy Spirit, probably in the traditional sense that is commonly understood as the trinity doctrine

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Originally Posted by 59caddy

my own thoughts are that most of these types of discussions are just a basic attempt to besmirch Christians and what they believe, veiled in what seems to be an open debate.
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Hey Scott, I can only speak for myself. I am actually close to finishing a book I borrowed from my mother. It's called 'Mysteries of the bible' by Borgerhoff and lamberigts.

It basically a highlight of some of the more questionable parts of the new testament, not so much judgemental as an effort to just look at the factual background of the gospels, like what is proven to have been added or removed from the 4 accepted gospels, based on earlier versions of those gospels as found in the nag haddim desert or even the vatican archives.

many of those edits have profound impact on key tenets of christianity, like the virgin birth, the role of mary magdalena, and other things.

I have no interest in throwing mud at anyone. However, an open debate makes it possible to see how Christianity can cope with these things. I am a catholic. I make no secret of the fact that I have fallen from the literal beliefs as they have been taught to me through the new testament, because I have come to the conclusion that any dogmatic religion taught through a document that has been suited to meet the views and needs of a budding religous establishment cannot possibly be the truth. And that it has been edited is beyond a doubt at this point, and then we don't even consider the gospels that were outrights rejected for disagreeing with the views of the ones compiling the NT.

Through discussions like these I try to figure out what part of christianity describes the core truths, and what parts don't.

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Originally Posted by 59caddy

furthermore if the "conversation" part of this site would to go away, it would not hurt my feelings at all. i come here to learn from the advice of others on straight shaving and things involved with that practice.

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If that is what you really want, I can remove you from the conversation user group and you will no longer see it. Drop me a PM if that is what you want and I'll see to it. Of course, you could also elect simply not to read it.

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Originally Posted by ENUF2

I I use just the book of John because it makes it easier for someone to check my references if they choose to.

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What you call the book of John was written long after the facts, copied and / or translated a couple of times, and edited when it was made part of the new testament.

The meaning and the content of the English version in your new testament are far removed from what John ever wrote down, if he ever did. I can accept that it is -a- version of what really happened, just like the other gospels are descriptions written down by someone else.

It is, however, not a verbatim transcription of what Jesus Christ said at a given time.