Enough is enough

didnt sound like preaching or arguing, we just have widely different opinions on "healthy fear" and that "it's hard to argue against the evidence of an entire country. more guns= less violent crimes=less non violent crimes."
until you did a much deeper study of swiss society, the high gun ownership and low crime correlation remains Very Very weak to me.

similarly i cant buy into "Every single state in the US which has instated a concealed carry permit program has had their crime rate drop. conversly, the states with the most gun control also have the worst crime." drawing the conclusion that the minority of a states population that takes advantage of a concealed carry permit is responsible for dropping crime rate just isnt believable to me, show me the crime rates before and after the implement of a concealed carry permit and then show me highschool drop out rates and a slew of economic indicators for the same time span and id be willing bet the concealed carry permit would be at the bottom of my list of why crime dropped or increased.

like any semi political debate i dont think we're going to be changing each others minds lol

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Originally Posted by rtaylor61

No, they would be reporting on our attempted murder trial.

RT

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Glad you feel better. I really don't know if I like the guy or not. Never met him, but a hunting accident just ain't no big deal. I too am tired of the media coverage.

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Originally Posted by NoMoreMach3

similarly i cant buy into "Every single state in the US which has instated a concealed carry permit program has had their crime rate drop. conversly, the states with the most gun control also have the worst crime."

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Just simply read what each state lists as their crime rates, in correlation to the dates that CCW's became legalized. Also, cross reference the dates of each new gun ban per state in relation to their publicly released violent crime rates.

I am not a rocket scientist, but it makes sense to me. I would much rather rob someone in a state where there is less of a chance that they would be able to shoot back. Even a street thug can figure that one out.

Anyway, like I said, not everyone has to like guns or own them; I just wish people would stop trying to take mine away...

First things first:
1. We're all sick of hearing about Cheney's stupidity, whether it includes a gun or not. For that matter, we're sick of not hearing alternate views on many issues or even MORE about some other places, people and issues.
2. I agree that "gun controll" is not a recipe for safer communities, but simply an unarmed population with an armed government.

That said, all this talk of whether the communities that are more liberal :eek: with their gun laws are safer is irrespective of the cultural approach to guns. The US has an obsession with gun culture and that exacerbates al the problems around it. For that reason it's almost useless to compare US gun culture to other countries.

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Originally Posted by xman

First things first:
1. We're all sick of hearing about Cheney's stupidity, whether it includes a gun or not. For that matter, we're sick of not hearing alternate views on many issues or even MORE about some other places, people and issues.

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Now I am a conservative, but even I am sick and tired of Bush's BS. And what upsets me most about this damn Chenney crap, is that I know Bush is thrilled that the media is leaving him alone and paying attention to Dick. Especially right now, that we have brilliantly agreed to sell six of our largest ports to a country that harbors terrorists. We need to be all over Bush like lint on velcro over these issues, not paying attention to Chenneys personal hobbies.

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Originally Posted by JLStorm

Just simply read what each state lists as their crime rates, in correlation to the dates that CCW's became legalized. Also, cross reference the dates of each new gun ban per state in relation to their publicly released violent crime rates.

I am not a rocket scientist, but it makes sense to me. I would much rather rob someone in a state where there is less of a chance that they would be able to shoot back. Even a street thug can figure that one out.

Anyway, like I said, not everyone has to like guns or own them; I just wish people would stop trying to take mine away...

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to me that's just drawing too broad of a conclusion on very limited information, like i said show me highschool drop out rates and a slew of economic indicators for the same time span and id be willing bet the concealed carry permit would be at the bottom of my list of why crime dropped or increased.

i actually own a .22 and a 12 gauge (no hand guns), both are collecting dust in cases in a closet in my house, neither add any sense of security for me.

Here's a tip, James. Do your own research. Look into the crime rates in the British Isles and Australia before/after they passed their respective gun laws. Yup, they worked so well we should copy them (or not). If you feel so strongly about guns, sell yours and put up a sign on your lawn stating that you're "Unarmed and proud of it." Wait and see how long it would be before you're burglarized.



Wayne

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Originally Posted by bbqncigars

Here's a tip, James. Do your own research. Look into the crime rates in the British Isles and Australia before/after they passed their respective gun laws. Yup, they worked so well we should copy them (or not). If you feel so strongly about guns, sell yours and put up a sign on your lawn stating that you're "Unarmed and proud of it." Wait and see how long it would be before you're burglarized.



Wayne

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i think you've missed the boat on my opinion entirely, ill look into the sign idea though...

My experience is that religion, politics and guns are about the three most explosive topics you can introduce into a conversation. Let's be sure to remember that this is opinion, and we can agree or agree to disagree. And I'm a gun owner. I've had a 410 shotgun since I was 13. Still on my first box of shells! However, I have used a beautiful ash Adirondack #38 a couple of times for protection. It warded off the demons.

RT

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Originally Posted by NoMoreMach3

i think you've missed the boat on my opinion entirely, ill look into the sign idea though...

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I like the "unarmed" sign idea! Don't tell the crooks that I'm a liar! I am sick and tired of hearing about this bullshit Cheney thing too. The little guy was just shooting at some little birds and it went wrong. I love the press calling it Buckshot! Oh, did I mention that I am a liberal. True. I am a gun toting liberal whateveryoucallit. CCW's...Yep, bring em on, but even if you don't, I'm still packing mine. But I don't believe in the death penalty..go figure....Time for my meds now...