Linux Anyone?

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Originally Posted by mslovacek

FUD,

Just curious, the linux post started me to wonder. What is your profession? What made you pick linux over winblows?

Mark.

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A profession? Ha!

I'm professionally unemployed due to outsourcing ;).

Seriously, I do whatever it takes to pay the bills. I have 2 college degrees and 4 semester hours away from a third. I'll probably finish that one this summer. Though my "profession" is Computer Services and repair (networking, hardware, scripting, and even programming if I have enough time for the job). I've been trying to run my own business for a bit now.

Why I chose Linux:
I started in computers when Dos was the craze and I had to program everything in. there were no premade portable programs on the market. When Linux came out it sounded like an affordable alternative to the "power machines" (unix systems). The more I read about Linux, the more I realized that Microsoft was just reading linux code and modifying most of it just enough to legally claim they weren't sponging and selling and then calling it their own stuff. Unix has had 64 bit hardware/software systems for YEARS now. Windows is touting this as if it's a major new technology.

The Major decision maker for me was when I heard the story of a major insurance company in Akron, OH that had remodelled in the early 90s. Long story short, they were going through buyouts, changing owners, etc. During the confusion a room got boxed in and all its contents. 3 years later they were tracing cable so they could put their water/electric/phone/computer network systems on paper for record. they traced a line into this room everyone had forgotten about. Their LINUX EMAIL server had been running in that room without error and without flaw. It came back up after power outages, it ran steady, it never crashed.

Now consider this, every major application You typically get for windows at a high cost, you can get in almost all linux distributions absolutely free.
***warning. shameless plugging***
Are you a graphics designer? Love Photoshop? Hate the price? Linux has GIMP! does more, and it's free, standard in the linux install. Don't want to lose Your Instant messenger? GAIM is similar to trillian but in linux, it supports several major instant messengers including AIM, Yahoo, ICQ. Love your Microsoft office for some strange reason? OpenOffice.org Software Suite in Linux! It overpowers Microsoft office EASILY. and it's FREE! Need a SQL server/client system that rivals Microsoft and other expensive database systems? Linux MySql! Yep! it's FREE. Or maybe you just want to play games and browse the web? Linux has ports of MOST major games, including quake, doom, Duke nukem, and all the other popular games.

DVD Player/authoring? CD player/ripper? sound editing? Major programming software? pdf authoring? multiple graphics editors? picture management programs? Email? Web Browsers? MP3 Players/editors? All this and much much more absolutely FREE in LINUX

Want to run an OLD windows program (that won't run under windows xp?) WINE runs MANY windows programs, both new and old. The beauty of it? you DON'T have to have Windows installed on your machine to run the program! you can configure wine to remember which version of windows each program has to be "run" in.

These are just a very few reasons to become involved with linux. Is it perfect? no. It's made by humans after all. As much as I hate to admit it, I still don't see any machine rivalling the pre-intel Macs for graphics, animated/still/movies. You still have to be somewhat technically inclined, or have a technogeek friend for some of the linux stuff.

If, however, you're satisfied with programs that come standard with windows or standardised for windows at an extra cost, like a web browser, email office suite software, networking, instant messaging, etc. Then WHY pay for windows software when you can get everything in linux in a nice friendly graphical user interface that gives you similarities to your windoze comforts while giving really nice additions.

I have some friends here who are blind. They have to pay over $1500. for a windows screen reader and they each want their own computer. Every major upgrade requires them to come up with major cash. Most windows systems milk people right and left of their cash for their needs. "Speakup" in linux is absolutely free. I'm writing to a blind technical guru in New York who has come up with a customized version of Fedora Linux that works wonderfully with Speakup. He's working to find software speach synthesizers working on Speakup so my friends won't have to buy a hardware speach synthesizer. If we are able to get something going, you know how much it will cost my friends? zero.

If I can buy $200 to $300 worth of hardware and add linux and then have a computer that would cost over $1500 just for the tower in windows. I'd rather save my money. Linux isn't perfect. But I've learned that with a little patience I can have a much more stable system Than windows. Thus I've switched to Linux and I'm in the process of learning it.

My neighbor is 90 years old this month. when he was 83 I built his first pc. a few weeks ago he upgraded it himself. Now he's talking about switching to linux and learning linux.

Go figure ;).

Sorry for the lengthy post.

P.S. I'm I Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer and I'm switching to Linux :p

One more post. Sorry. Want to try linux but don't want to install it or change your current system? KNOPPIX runs from your CD and does not change anything on your computer.

FUD

FUD,
It's certainly no mystery that Linux is so popular... it's essentially free while Microsoft continues to raise the prices of their products. Linux, after all, is rooted in the concepts of UNIX (which pre-dated Windows by what-- a decade? ). However, UNIX wasn't very successful commercially (because of it's high cost) when it was owned by AT&T... ultimately, wasn't that why Linus Torvalds created Linux?

In all fairness, though, even with its high cost, Windows currently IS the industry standard, like it or not. It was probably before your time, but IBM used to rule the roost in a similar fashion... and they stayed on top for a long long time against fairly formidable competitors like Honeywell, Wang, Data General, Digital Equipment, etc. They did so because they had lots of money, lots of customers, were good at marketing -- not because they had the better products. And least we forget, if it were not for IBM's PC there probably wouldn't have been a Microsoft. Later, when they realized Microsoft was getting too powerful, IBM tried to counter with OS2. It was (IMHO) clearly a better Operating System, but by then Microsoft had built up so much inertia (and was holding so many users captive with proprietary functions) that the die was cast. Even Apple couldn't unseat them, and they, for all practical purposes, really invented "windows".

For those of us who still need (for whatever reason) to use Windows, but want to avoid the high cost of many of those programs you mentioned (eg, WORD, etc.), free versions of many/most of these programs are available for Windows, too.

I personally use the Windows version of GIMP, OpenOffice, etc. And I have refused to upgrade many of Microsoft's compilers to their latest versions since I have no need whatsoever for their "new features". Eventually Microsoft started using "incompatibility" as a leverage to force users to upgrade (as they did eg, with Access)... when they did this I simply elected to port my applications to utilize non-Microsoft products, many of which were free. Microsoft will eventually go the way of IBM... all companies that are the top dog in their industry are doomed fail. Why? Because every one of their competitors is working at defeating them, and the little guy is more nimble and can change directions to meet market needs for less cost.

Joe, you will also remember that OS/2 Warp was a bastardization of the Microsoft/IBM venture. After the fallout, IBM continued the development process and created Warp while Microsoft developed their own strain of "true" 32-bit OS code and developed Windows NT 3.1 (New Technology for all you young-uns ;) ) Since that time, (by the way OS/2 which was a great OS, flopped) M$ and their marketing giants have made a fortune touting the "new and improved" 32-bit operating structure. Just a little more history behind the M$ OS juggernaut that has the head of Bill Gates.

FUD, I am also an MCSE, but to be fair, I started long ago. Did you know that MCP IDs are sequential? Most of those still around today are 7 digits (1 million+). By the way, my MCP ID is SIX digits and begins with a 3 :D That's right, I was in the first 400,000 certified professional from MS. When I was an actively practicing MCSE, it actually MEANT something.

....and to stay on topic, I've been using Linux OSs since Slackware 2.1. I then moved to RedHat distributions and never really looked back. I've used RedHat 5.x to 9.x and now Fedora since RedHat went enterprise and started charging for the "packaging". I love it and can't get enough!

Sorry for the long post, but I had to do SOMETHING special for my 100th post and Honemeister :ziplip: title....

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Originally Posted by azjoe

FUD,
In all fairness, though, even with its high cost, Windows currently IS the industry standard, like it or not. .

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It's estimated that 90% of the computers in the world are running one form of windows or another. There's nothing "fair" about it ;).

Bottom line is, until linux or someone else comes up with a system that's as user friendly as windows and idiot safe as windows, windows will continue to dominate.

The trouble with linux is many of the developers are still enjoying the "linux is a technogeek's OS" mentality. There are many that are coming around though and are, like you said, starting to eye the evil giant and are becoming more willing to topple it.

After all, as you said Windows IS rooted in unix. Even today I see many things that have already been implimented in unix/linux that are just starting to come out in Windows. I.E. it appears very strongly that windows is sponging and selling ;).

Oh well. such is life.

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Originally Posted by dawill

FUD, I am also an MCSE, but to be fair, I started long ago. Did you know that MCP IDs are sequential? Most of those still around today are 7 digits (1 million+). By the way, my MCP ID is SIX digits and begins with a 3 :D That's right, I was in the first 400,000 certified professional from MS. When I was an actively practicing MCSE, it actually MEANT something.

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Yea that's another thing that burns my butt, I'm not in the first half million I started right after the first million. I studied my brains out for weeks and then went and took all my tests at once. When I got done some kid says "did you use braindumps"? "Brain what?" I ask. then he shows me a website with over 80% of ALL the test questions I just took and ALL of them answered correctly (I know. I aced all but the networking, which I only missed one on).

I had just spent several thousand dollars on training that essentially was worthless, I realized at that point. Talk about getting hit in the stomach. Tha'ts one thing I will say for cisco, It's not so easy to study "test questions" and pass the exam with them. Even the Novell exams were tougher than the MCSE. Microsoft still hasn't done what's necessary to make their certification worthwhile. I had one guy turn my bid down and tell me he wouldn't talk to me about work for his company until I upgraded my MCSE to 2003. I asked him how many MCSE's he had working for him that were worth the money. He just stared at me and said he was an mcse. I asked him to explain the OSI model to me and relate the TCP/IP stack to it. He couldn't even summarize how tcp/ip works. Then I asked him to explain how IP addresses work. He couldn't do that (think zipcodes class, think zipcodes and mailing addresses :p ). I asked him how much of the MCSE training he could honestly say he uses. he admitted he didn't take the training, only the tests.

Sorry for the rant. I gotta quit. I'm going to get ulcers if I don't give up this distain for microsoft. :nono:

Glen F.

LOL, I used to be an MCT and I trained a LOT of the boneheads out there so I know exactly what you mean. I used to tell my students that what I was teaching them was only a small percentage of what they would truly need to know. I also told them that as a field engineer (where I got my start and continue to this day), that they have to strive to be the person I want to work with when there's a problem at 3AM the day before a major launch or upgrade. That's the place you want to be, otherwise, you're just as disposable as any other 7 digit MSCmE

I got a degree in Maths with Computer Science and I am not gonna say what I think of microsoft.

Not trying to hijack the thread or anything, just curious if any folks are using any of the *BSD flavors here.

I first installed Slackware Linux back in 1994. I've played with SuSE, RedHat and Mandrake since then. One of my former employers used FreeBSD for our DNS servers. They were bulletproof -- uptime was close to 2 years until the UPS for the datacenter was interrupted. Let me tell you, when the uninterruptible power supply (generator, battery strings) gets interrupted it's an ugly day. The whole datacenter, a constant near deafening whirring of fans fell totally silent... well, it's just eerie. I haven't played with any of the *nix distros the past few years, there just isn't enough time in the day to have playtime for that anymore.

I will say that Linux has come a *long* way from back in '94. Xfree86 was it, and that was if it worked with your graphics card. Now there's Gnome & KDE, the help files are a lot better. I can't tell you how many hours I spent reading FAQs & HOWTO documents, but in the end it was well worth the time invested. I love the way you can customize the kernel, even moreso now with kernel modules. You'll never see a Micro$haft box do that. I'm pleased to see the market penetration, and hopefully more commercial apps in the future.

With respect to certifications: there are a lot of MCSE's out there -- Minesweeper Consultants and Solitare Experts. I've met a few who were exceedingly sharp, and I've met the other end of the spectrum who didn't have a clue about IP & the OSI model. Most certifications seem to be in high demand initially, and the pay is often more but as the market becomes saturdated does it make any appreciable difference? Cisco used to have only the CCIE (top level) certification. Once they figured out there was big money, now there's CCNA, CCNP, etc. etc. Lots of paper tigers out there.

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Originally Posted by sensei_kyle

Not trying to hijack the thread or anything, just curious if any folks are using any of the *BSD flavors here.

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I worked on a project where a company that was bought out used freebsd. I didn't get to mess with it more than necessary to port the data out using company software tools but it reminded me a lot of the linux/unix architecture when I booted them up.

You're the first person I've actually heard that had more than just a passing acquaintance with it. I've always assumed that it wasn't up to the portability and reliability that keeps the linux flavors going.