Running kills my knees!

Greetings Gentlemen.

Recently I bought my wife a treadmill. Great idea I thought for improving my view! Anyhow, I have started to use it myself. Being the kind of guy who only runs if the cops are chasing him, this has been a bit of an accomplishment for me. Everything was going okay for about two weeks, then last week, after increasing my length to about a 4km jog, a consistent pain set in in my knees. This gradually increased to an agonizing pitch by Wednesday and I would hobble when I walked. I thought I may have overdone it so I backed off and stuck to the bicycle. This improved it somewhat to the point where yesterday I thought i could try a run again. Wrong move. The painful ache is back with a vengeance. I would like to know if any of you guys have any experience with running? Is this normal? Will it get better? Considering I have not run any sort of length in 20 years or more I was thinking a little bit of discomfort initially would be inevitable, but surely not to the point where I limp and need pain killers! Any advice would be much appreciated.

It could be a combination of things.


First because you haven't ran in a while it could be your body just getting used to new workload your putting it through. But even that shouldn't hurt as much as you say. Which brings me to my next point.

Which is it's most likely your treadmill. I used to be a personal trainer and I always told clients o do something else instead of the treadmill. This was because the impact on your knees is just to painful and could lead to some injuries. I always use the elliptical machine myself.

Of course some people really do like the treadmill so just becareful about te speed your running at. Te faster you go the harder the impact on your knees. Also try to wear some athletic shoes that have a good thick sole on them to cushion the impact.

Run barefoot or with Vibram Five Fingers (google them). Awesome.

Nothing against Philadelphs response, but if you are new to this I would take basil's advice, its probably the machine. 4k isn't far enough to cause that much pain, I would blame the machine first, the shoes second. Running is boring enough, I cant imagine doing a stationary run.

+1 on basil's and nun2sharp's advice. When I first began using a treadmill, my ankles hurt like the dickens. It was because my musculature was not toned. In short, I was out of shape. Try some warmup exercises before hitting the treadmill. Perhaps even some weight bags to drape over your ankles and perform some warmup exercises.

Keep in mind that cycling does not put as much stress on your joints as running. That is one reason why so many people opt for cycling over running.

You may also want to consider a fast walk on the treadmill at first, as opposed to running. After a month or two you can build up to a slow jog, then increase your speed from there.

Dr. Kenneth Cooper wrote a book called Aerobics many years ago that would be good to get hold of and read. You should be walking for a month for a mile to two miles to strengthen the muscles, tendons, liniments before you put the stress of running on them. Another valuable book is Stretching by Bob Anderson for after you start. Right now the best thing you can do is lay off for a week or two.

Are you feeling a lot of tightness in the muscles on the outer sides of your glutes? I know that when I was power lifting a lot (and specifically squatting) I developed "jogger's knee," as my those muscles were tightening up and pulling my anterior tendons and ligaments out of line--effectively twisting my knee so that I got nasty inflammation of the meniscus. Getting a foam roller (just a big log of foam) and doing soft tissue work on the areas causing problems fixed the issues.

Maybe try adding in some soft tissue and stretching work to your routine; a foam roller would be handy, too.

If the pain persists, you may find it beneficial to visit someone--I would personally suggest an ART (Active Recovery Technique) specialist; they do great work so far as diagnosing what the problem may be.

Best of luck.

I see this at the gym right after Jan 1st since people make these damn New Year Resolutions. They go all out after many years of only doing 12 ounce curls, and then they disappear after 2 weeks.

It is sad because usually they have invested money into shoes, clothing, new diet, etc. and they want to come get in shape instantly.

Start out doing 15 minutes for a week and then add a few minutes each week.
Gradually build up.

Running is hard on the knees anyway since you are coming down at 3TIMES your body weight. Most long term runners in their 50s are either getting surgery, need surgery, or have already got surgery.

I used to run alot (b4 marriage n kids)...take is slow n walk..slowly day by day move the speed 3 points higher..start at 2..walk for 30min..go from there..get yourself a good running shoe ASICS makes a good pair..drink water not cold and a step at a time

Pcdad

Pcdad

start slow is the best way to start. pain could be many different things.
we called good pain and bad pain.
if it is muscle pain then it is most likely good pain you don't have to worry about it a lot.
if it is bone pain you should slow down.
it may be stress fracture etc.
take couple days off see how your knees will act. gl

You could try opening your stride.

I'd side with Vulcan:
Chondromalacia patellae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Try going for an actual jog once your knees feel better and see if the pain returns.

I took a quick look to see if I still had any info laying around, and found this link:

Untitled Document

Sorry, but it's all I've got. A few quick other thoughts I had, however:

-One of the symptoms of inflamed patella is a distinct "click" to the knee when flexing it; you may also find that it hurts a LOT when going down stairs, and when you're sitting for any length of time.

-Heat and stretch the muscles that are tight (see "Iliotibial_band" in Commiecat's link), but DO NOT heat the knee itself. That needs ice to bring down the inflammation. Some ibuprofen wouldn't hurt either.

Thanks all for the input & advice. I cycled this morning to, I guess, force the issue a little and also to compensate for my inevitable ale intake today. Surprisingly there was no pain at all and upon finishing, after about 25 minutes or so intense cycling, I feel a lot better. I will stick to the bike for a week and try the treadmill again and see how it goes. There is no real tightness or noticeable inflamation. It feels like the pain is inside the joint. Hopefully time and conditioning will solve my problem because I dont plan on giving it up. It is quite an enjoyable workout and certainly relieves the boredom of cycling 6 days a week. Thanks again you fine fellows.
Mykel

Mykel, I still ride bicycles quite a bit and was a road man for 35 years or so before discovering off road singletrack trail riding. For the past 5 years I've been avidly pursuing singletrack trails and it is rarely boring. I didn't ride road bikes at all for a few years and found on going back to the road that I was no longer bored with that. If you get into the off road and then mix the two up they really compliment each other and make it fun again.

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Originally Posted by commiecat

I'd side with Vulcan:
Chondromalacia patellae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Try going for an actual jog once your knees feel better and see if the pain returns.

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Very painful, my daughter developed this which took her out of College Athletics.

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Originally Posted by MykelDR

Thanks all for the input & advice. I cycled this morning to, I guess, force the issue a little and also to compensate for my inevitable ale intake today. Surprisingly there was no pain at all and upon finishing, after about 25 minutes or so intense cycling, I feel a lot better. I will stick to the bike for a week and try the treadmill again and see how it goes. There is no real tightness or noticeable inflamation. It feels like the pain is inside the joint. Hopefully time and conditioning will solve my problem because I dont plan on giving it up. It is quite an enjoyable workout and certainly relieves the boredom of cycling 6 days a week. Thanks again you fine fellows.
Mykel

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Rest the knees, then try an elliptical machine. Very easy on the knees and you still get a good workout. I have mine in front of the TV and watch the news. Makes the time pass.
Hope you feel better.

One hip surgery later and another right around the corner..........

What choo talkin' bout Willis........

:):):):)

Lynn

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Originally Posted by jimmyfingers

I see this at the gym right after Jan 1st since people make these damn New Year Resolutions. They go all out after many years of only doing 12 ounce curls, and then they disappear after 2 weeks.

It is sad because usually they have invested money into shoes, clothing, new diet, etc. and they want to come get in shape instantly.

Start out doing 15 minutes for a week and then add a few minutes each week.
Gradually build up.

Running is hard on the knees anyway since you are coming down at 3TIMES your body weight. Most long term runners in their 50s are either getting surgery, need surgery, or have already got surgery.

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My father in-law bought a tread mill with the idea that the whole family can get into shape.

I guess I wasn't in very good shape because I broke it before anyone could get any injuries.

I use an exercise bike at home, and I watch DVDs while cycling.
I used to run quite a lot but developed joggers knee. Every time I try to run again it comes back after a mile. I am thinking of getting my feet measured to see if I need specific shoes.

Other than the bike, I use a rowing machine at the gym, as well as a wheelchair exercise bike with which you use your arms instead of your legs. Other than that I also practice martial arts which do not hurt my knee at all. Even when I played squash it did not cause problems for my knee. But a simple jog will kill my knees.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

I use an exercise bike at home, and I watch DVDs while cycling.
I used to run quite a lot but developed joggers knee. Every time I try to run again it comes back after a mile. I am thinking of getting my feet measured to see if I need specific shoes.

Other than the bike, I use a rowing machine at the gym, as well as a wheelchair exercise bike with which you use your arms instead of your legs. Other than that I also practice martial arts which do not hurt my knee at all. Even when I played squash it did not cause problems for my knee. But a simple jog will kill my knees.

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A Concept 2 Rowing machine is one of my best exercise investments. Simple, yet durable. They do not constantly upgrade these things and it is you doing all the work, and not a machine that has a motor that will eventually blow.
https://www2.concept2.com/VIA/Res/C2...s/1990_400.jpg

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Originally Posted by Philadelph

Run barefoot or with Vibram Five Fingers (google them). Awesome.

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I teach at a law enforcement academy. I use these shoes ALL the time. They saved my career.

Your form will improve A LOT.

Is the pain on the outside of the knee or on the front of the knee? I am a triathlete and have run into my fair share of injury.

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Originally Posted by jimmyfingers

A Concept 2 Rowing machine is one of my best exercise investments. Simple, yet durable. They do not constantly upgrade these things and it is you doing all the work, and not a machine that has a motor that will eventually blow.
https://www2.concept2.com/VIA/Res/C2...s/1990_400.jpg

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This is the one I use at the gym. Indeed a good machine, and it's a pity that I don't have the space to install one at home.

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Originally Posted by sharp

Is the pain on the outside of the knee or on the front of the knee? I am a triathlete and have run into my fair share of injury.

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It is tough to isolate but if you imagine a circular plane inside the knee it would be the front half leading around to each side of the knees.

Scotch seems to help it! As if I need another excuse.

So the pain is on the knee cap and radiates towards your other leg and towards the outside of your leg or does the pain radiate from your knee cap towards your thigh?

The reason I am asking is that depending on the where the pain is, will determine the likely source of the problem. Look at the bottom of your running shoes and see what the wear pattern looks like (is the outside edge worn more than the inside? Is the heel outer edge worn and then the ball inner edge worn or vice versa?) I suspect that when you are running you are either over pronating or over supinating your foot. Your body will try to compensate but the tendons in your legs are not flexible enough to be able to do so. This leads to the tendons rubbing against your bones and thus causing inflammation (does the pain start dull and become sharper and sharper until it feels like a knife?) The pain with this type of injury generally stops as soon as you stop running and returns as soon as you start (during the same session). You can take a day or 2 off, go back to running and think everything is fine and then it comes right back because the same rubbing is happening. The correction is strength training the support muscles that are weak and causing the problem. I'll give you more info if any of this sounds like what you are experiencing.

I don't know about the OP, but the symptoms you describe fit mine to a T.
Only in my case, the pain is really on the outside of my knee. And indeed it builds up gradually until it feels like someone is sticking a knife in my knee.

It stops as soon as I stop, and when I had it bad, walking slightly downhill was murder. I suspect I run too much on the outside of my foot.

If you intend to continue running I'd talk to a sports physiotherapist.
In the meanwhile how about setting an incline on the treadmill, running downhill always seems to put more strain on the knees, so if you are always going uphill.......

I haven't read all of the posts, but based on a page 1 read, I wanted to pose a few suggestions for your consideration ...

1. Check with your Dr.
2. Agree with the "anti-treadmill" thoughts
3. Agree with the suggestions to start out walking ... could be weight, and if you can get your weight down a few pounds, it will make a difference
4. Consider an exercise that doesn't tax the joints as much ... elliptical machine, or bicycle. I have played soccer for years (I'm 51 yrs. old), and finally find the cartilidge in my knees giving me problems from the wear and tear ... but the bicycle is much more forgiving, and I now see that the bike will probably go with me further into old age than soccer. Also, I have a back problem that gives me problems running, but not on a bike ... the bike actually seems to improve my back strength.
5. Consider taking Glucosamine / Chrondoiten (sp?) ... it's a supplement that even doctors recommend, and actually helps rebuild cartilege and repair damage ... if your problem is cartiledge, then this will help.
6. Run on grass (a little more difficult, but much more forgiving on the joints) ... I can play soccer, but can no longer just "run" on pavement. Asphalt is better than concrete sidewalks, also.
7. I have to go back to the bike, though ... you can start slow, and build up to greater distances, and it helps the back and doesn't seem to hurt the joints.
8. I have found when I am at 200 lbs vs. 220, most of my ailments go away ... joint pain, back pain, lack of energy, much better sleeping, better urinary tract function, better sex life, more confidence, better motivation to get even fitter ... it ALL gets better (except maybe the volume and content of food) ... but even considering the food drawback, it's WELL worth it. Good luck in keeping up the motivation ... it will add years and quality to your life.

orthotics might help if your feet don't have good shape (they help with me). Stretching key too.

I picked up two warm-up exercises from my father that have really helped my knees:

1) While standing (and holding onto something for support), extend one leg in front of you, with the thigh elevated just enough so that the heel is off the floor. Keeping the thigh where it is, simply swing the foot forward and backward 30 or 40 times through an increasing, yet comfortable range of motion. Do it gently - don't snap at full extension. Repeat for other leg.

2) From the same standing position, cycle each leg 30-40 times. This should look sort of like an exaggerated demonstration of 'how to run'. Again, no need to do it overly fast/hard.


Other exercises may work just as well, of course. I think the point is to warm up (and maybe lubricate) the joint before performing similar movements under a full load.

FWIW, my father is 63, and for the past decade or so he's been jogging half an hour every morning on hilly pavement. :medvl:

Hi all. I would just like to update and once again thank you all for the many and varied helpful replies and advice I have received. Apologies for not getting around to this sooner.. work has really exploded in the last month for me. Tax time down under!

Anyhow probably the most effective thing I did was to take a complete break from running for two weeks.. restricting myself to just my bike up on a trainer. It was amazing to experience the difference between the two physical activities.. insistent agony while running yet nothing of the sort while cycling.

After two weeks I tried a walk/run combination for around 2 km, making sure to always stretch for a few minutes beforehand while paying acute attention to getting quite a bit of movement going in the knee joint.

There was some pain initially for the first three days after which it started to wane somewhat. I was pretty determined to push through.

So I have been building up through the last three weeks or so to solid running to the point today of running around 3.5 km. No pain at all really, just the feeling of having done some physical activity. Great! I am quite happy with the result.

So I think I really over did the workload in the first few weeks of my introduction to running. Knees that have not had to put up with such a workload for twenty years or more should not be asked to again do so immediately without complaining a little and taking a little bit of time to get used to it.

Thanks again gentlemen.

Mykel

If you bend your knees slighly when you run you won't put so much pressure on the joint when you run. It takes more effort to stand using muscle than bone, but it is the way to do it.

Don't lock your knees when you stand, walk, or run.