Quote:
Originally Posted by rtaylor61
you've peaked my curiousity :thinking:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtaylor61
you've peaked my curiousity :thinking:
hehe, I was at that chat too... I think people take Brian to serious, though...
Nenad,
You are probably right. But when the man verbally attacked my ex-wife and my children...that's just a line NOBODY crosses.
JL, not going to go back through it, but we all have our breaking point. I have the bar set VERY high, and this main went to trouble to climb to the top and jump up and down. I'm not one who has ever held a grudge, but after 45 years, this is the one thing in my life that still bothers me.
RT
Randy, I understand completely. Going after someone's family is tasteless, but doing so online compounds the problem by also being a gutless act. Anyone can talk tough on the Internet. In person, it's a whole other ballgame.
I agree, Brian went way over the line that night. The more attention people give him during his "entertainment" sessions, the more fire is around... sad.
Nenad
My wife is also a teacher -(sixth grade) at a Catholic Grade School and I hear some of the same things you mentioned from her. They have yet to yell across the class while she is talking, even I wouldn't consider that.:D But the problem starts in the home - lack of respect for each other and lack of discipline. I can tell you that by the age of 16 I was much taller than my parents and while I might have argued with them about something or other at the end I obeyed their decision. I tell my kids at home this is not a democracy it is a monarchy and I am the king. In my house you follow my rules, when you have a house you can do as you please. I love my kids dearly however respect for authority and their elders are a lesson I insist they learn.Quote:
Originally Posted by mgraepel
And the more attention he receives from the moderators, including a little vacation time (in the form of a ban) to reconsider how he treats others.Quote:
Originally Posted by superfly
All in all, we treat each other very well around here. While tempers may flare from time to time, in the end it is typically all settled in an adult fashion with a high degree of respect.
One of my sensei's explained it thusly: We have an ethical and moral obligation to teach people how to treat us. In other words, if you let folks use you for a doormat or treat you badly, you can only be mad at yourself for not setting them straight.
This reminds me of an incident that just occured. I was driving home and was stopped in the left turn lane waiting for the arrow. I turned left on the green arrow and proceeded down the two lane road (one lane each direction) with a center turn lane. About 400' onto the road a black Neon zips past me on the left side, the windows are of course tinted black. Anyways I thought no biggie, stupid kids. Then out of the driver side window I see an arm with a middle finger waving at me for several seconds. :mad: Well I wasn't stressing it because I know the road and was aware that the driver of said vehicle would probably be stopped at the next light where I would be able to pull up to him and chew his ass. Just as soon as I got on the side of the Neon the light turned green and it zipped away. As luck would have it, it was going the same direction I was (I was going home). At this point the road turned into a four lane, it was in the right, then went to the left lane, as did I as I had to go that way to get home. Then the car took a hard right and stopped and as I pulled past I saw it was some dumb bizzo. The neon then gunned it towards the rear of my Jeep and appeared as though she was going to ram me, secretly I was hoping she would as I have an aftermarket bumper that would have destroyed her car. At the last second she pulled a hard left pulling a U-Turn and sped away. It occured to me that she thought I was following her, when in reality I was just going to my apt. I scared this sh!t out of her. :p And I didn't even try.
Now, the only thing I can think of that I might have done to piss her off is driving the speed limit. I never cut her off, never had the opportunity to, nothing, just going the speed limit, and apparently this bizzo was in a hurry, ok, np, but there was no need for the finger. I bet she will be more cautious in the future, or not, and I hope she does that trash to some psycho so that natural selection can intervene and end her bloodline. I have encountered a lot of rude people out here in San Diego, I think it is a Cali thing, no offense to native Californians. I'm from Illiniois and people are generally more cordial in the midwest.
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Originally Posted by U.S.Marines
Its stories like this that make me realize I prefer animals to people lol
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Originally Posted by JLStorm
Me too :) :)
is that the same brian that made the videos??Quote:
Athough there was that one chat session with Brian...who remains HIGH on my list as the "least" gentlemanly person I have ever crossed,
Yes, it's the same guy -- Brian Donofrio.Quote:
Originally Posted by trapperjohnme
Quote:
Originally Posted by trapperjohnme
Yea, Brian was trying to goad people into making shaving videos and went a little too far with his antics. ( a lot too far)
He's a good resource for some fun stuff. Lynn's videos are far better for shaving techniques but Brian does have some fun stuff on his site.
well thats just sad :(
anyone that picks on a mans family ought to be busted in the mouth
I only tailgate someone >> if they cut me off << and then drive slower than me until I get a good chance to pass'em, then I forget about them. But if I'm on a 1 lane (per direction) road, going 20 over the limit and I see a person approaching me from behind, I move over to the right and let them pass. This is just proper lane discipline taught to me in Europe. The basic rule is "If you're blocking a faster driver, let him/her pass." (*)
(*) There's nothing wrong with going at your own speed on a 1 lane road (as long as it's >= the speed limit. I just like to go the extra mile. However, if you're on a two lane (per direction) road there's no reason for you not to move over to the right and let a faster driver pass.
Courtesy is really showing in this topic.
Really ....
Just be nice is all I can really say. Don't get mad at someone because they won't let you pass. (they might just be bad drivers and not have seen you)
Don't get mad because someone bumps into you or anything without saying sorry, you don't know what people are going through at the moment.
Just be nice is the thing. And even if someone acts like a jerk and you don't do that back at him maybe, just maybe you'll make them stop and think and they'l do better next time.
I agree about the ethics and legislation thing. People should be teaching their children what's right, not wait untill a law is passed about it.
I'll have to define my brand of tailgating. Let us say a person cuts me off.. It's only natural that I'll have to apply brakes and still end up on their rear bumper b/c they caused such a situation. That's when I am going to slow down to the speed limit. If they are going faster, they will start developing some distance between the two cars. If they are going slower, I will stay on their rear bumper for another 5-10 seconds before backing off and finding a good spot to pass. This is a pure admonishment. Since we don't have any other ways of communicating (other than physical contact b/w the two cars, i.e. a collision) it's a way of expressing my disapproval. Just like it's laudable to do nice things for other people, I see no problems with expressing my disapproval when someone is being rude to me.
That sounds dangerous to me, I prefer the pass the offending vehicle and get in front of it, then slow down method. :D If the idiot in front of you applies his brakes abrubtly you will rearend him, and in the insurance eyes you are at fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT
I agree about not getting mad when someone cuts you off, or bumps you. I mean I think everyone has inadvertantly cut someone off on the road. I have, and I felt like a complete ass when the driver honked the horn. No if someone bumps into you they should apologize, I don't get mad if someone bumps me, it is when they don't apologize that I get angered.Quote:
Originally Posted by LX_Emergency
Now, if someone acts like a jerk, I'm not talking accidently, I'm talking the guy/girl is a complete tool bag or beotch then hell no, you shouldn't just stand there. Say something at least. If you just take it you are condoning the whackoffs actions, and he/she will never stop being a pos. They will only become more bold in their rudeness. Some people think they are better then everyone else for whatever reason, the only way to deal with that is by at a minimum saying something. If said offender wants to throw down over something stupid I'm not going to throw the first punch unless I know he is about to strike me first. But some people need to be taken down a peg or two and taught some humility.
Not necessarily if you know your respective capabilities. So I know that I can follow a large Buick much closer than I would follow an M3 (and people usually don't buy those to drive slowly lol) I also pay extra close attention not just to his brake lights (they can be rigged not to work or just broken) and to our respective position. The other thing is that I limit the time I take to express my disapproval to 5-10sec (enough to let him know he's acting like a jerk but not long enough to create a dangerous situation). Then as soon as I have a good opportunity to pass, I gear down and pass him before he has time to remember to remember to speed up.Quote:
Originally Posted by U.S.Marines
Here's a good solution. once the idiot has passed you drive much slower. let him/her find someone else to irritate. No matter how good you are, there's always someone better, and more skilled. Lotsa insurance frauds are committed by goading people to tailgate or try to pass then the person slams on the breaks and causes a rearend hit. These folks do this for a living. I'm assuming you don't. If they test you once or twice to see how long you'll tailgate they'll play it in a way that you get bit. Unless youre God, you'll get bit eventually.
That's why I am extra careful and got hundreds of thousands of kilometers of experience under all kinds of conditions. On a couple of occasions, the person would REALLY want to play like a jerk and not let me pass by any means necessary. That's where I'd make a turn and take an alternative route.
I may be mildly in favor of expressing my outrage, but I'm adamantly opposed to risking my life in dealing with idiots.
Sometimes they REALLY want to act like idiots, but that's when a cell phone and knowing where your local police divisions/outposts are located come in really handy. I guess they do have some use other than swilling Tim Hortons coffee and donuts afterall lol.
I once really did see two cop cars racing to a Tim Horton's doughnut shop.Quote:
Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT
The one on the corner of Main & Gage Sts. in Hamilton ON, the city where the legend began.
X
Quote:
Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT
As a police officer, I can tell you we do have lots more to do...but hey, we gotta eat, too.
I've had more negative experiences with the police than positive even though I have a clean record... Just the amount of money that I lost on tickets handed to me without a proper cause outweighs the amount of money that I got back due to police efforts:
1) Money recovered:
-When I got robbed at knife-point, by a person I knew, he got arrested and I eventually got the $230 back.
2) Money lost:
-The light turned from green to yellow while I was in the middle of the intersection. The cop was desperate to meet his quota so he wrote me a ticket for "running a red." It cost me $300 to fight it (and win).
-I had a brand spankin' new insurance policy, but the broker made a dating mistake (dd/mm/yy instead of yy/mm/dd). Since there is no chance in hell I could get my plates without a valid insurance policy, all the cop had to do was place a call to dispatch and resolve the issue. Instead, he wrote me a $60 ticket for driving without insurance.
-I got a "driving in the commuter lane" ticket because I went into it to make a right turn into a parking lot. I even had a government ID and parking slips on me to prove I parked there. However, platoon A of the 22nd division was going on vacation, they had to meet their quotas (so they set up a commuter lane trap with like 6-7 cruisers that morning) and he nailed me with a $80 ticket.
Therefore Money Wrongfully Collected ($300+$80+$60) - Money Recovered ($230) = $440-$230 = $210. That's how much police constables overeager to convict regardless of the facts literally stole from me.
In general, I found police constables in Ontario to be more interested in taking money from honest people than investigating the facts before laying charges. That is unless they're dealing with good looking women. They can flirt/cry their way out of speeding tickets in 95% of the cases. I guess Louisiana police has at least one good apple.
Then there is their routine practice of shaking dealers down for their drugs so they can enjoy the product or share it with their buddies. At least public outcry brought mandatory drug testing for Toronto PCs, which made that practice very prohibitive.
P.S. I've always been courteous and 100% cooperative with police constables. I never raised my voice, always had my documents with me, always verbally outlined my actions before performing them. At night, I'd turn the dome light on and keep my hands on the steering wheel. No cop ever got any grief from me until that last commuter lane ticket, when I wrote a letter to the 2nd in command of the 22nd division. And even then, it was phrased as a polite suggestion to re-train the A platoon in enforcement of that particular municipal bylaw.
All this road rage/courtesy talk reminds me of the road rage incident back in the late 80's down in Tennessee where some guy had his lights on bright and his rollbar lights all on. The victim's father flashed him a couple times, then turned his own lights on bright to stay. They heard a loud pop as the truck drove past them, and simultaneously a thud on their car. They pulled over to check it out. Brightlights pickup had fired a .44 as he passed them. It went through the back door and through their son's chest, side to side, through and through. The boy was pronounced dead at the scene by paramedics.
That's a 2nd hand story told by a state trooper in Tenn.
Then there's the tale of the Elderly bow hunter who shot in self defense when some guy got sick of his slow driving, passed & cut him off to the point of making him stop, got out of the car and headed towards the elderly guy with his fists clenched. I think they prosecuted the elderly guy.
Then you have Mr. CrossBow out west who fired a crossbow at some guy that cut him off in rush hour traffic and went to jail unrepentant, calling on more americans to get rid of the road trash like he did.
Sad really.
In a way I understand him even though he should spend a couple of decades in prison. The problem is that the police does not prosecute drivers who cut people off, obstruct the flow of traffic or drive recklessly. Those charges are not as easy to prove as speeding. To prove speeding, the constable can refer to 1 year old notes and no documentary evidence. The other violations I mentioned are easier to challenge, so cops let that behavior go on. Since people can get away with it legally, they do it (which brings us back to the original argument of equating laws and morality).
The reason for them not prosecuting those difficult to prove cases is that traffic law enforcement is a money-making machine. They don't want to gum it up with complicated cases, thus slowing down the cash-flow.
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Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT
I had a very long response, but what it comes down to is police departments are ultimately ruled by politicians. If that doesn't tell you everything you need to know, I can't help further. Elect better politicians, assist police when necessary, and most of your complaints will evaporate. 99.9% of police are honest men/women, working hard and trying to do a good job for very little money and even less appreciation, help, or cooperation from the people they're trying to serve. Prosecution (at least in the U.S.) comes through the courts, not the police.
And as far as women crying their way out of tickets....doesn't work with me. I'm actually much more apt to write a good looking woman a ticket (she's going to have a ticketable offense before I ever pull him/her over in the first place), no matter how much she cries and begs. If you don't, you wind up in hot water, because she'll go to your chief complaining you only pulled her over because you wanted to "look at her" or "get her number". If you didn' t write her up, you really have no defense against a baseless accusation. For that reason, I don't buy all that crying crap...I don't care if she looks like Angelina Jolie. My integrity and reputation are far more important to me than anything she can offer anyway.
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Originally Posted by Joe Chandler
Good Grief man, you are warped! Any man who would like "Ms. MAN HIPS & toothpick legs" really needs his brain examined! ;). Course you're confessing to being a cop so . . . . :D (j/k)
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Originally Posted by FUD
Charlize Theron or C.Z. Jones might've been better choices. :D
I partially agree with you on this point. However, I'll give my disagreeing part of the argument first: In Ontario, it is up to the constable to charge the driver with a highway traffic act violation.
Now, I understand that various police forces like local services, opp and rcmp are under pressure to collect money for cash-strapped provinces/municipalities. They are given high quotas and the only way to reach them is by setting up an industrial style of money collection (like speed traps).
Unfortunately the awareness among the voters isn't at a very high level and if a political party pushes for changes in HTA enforcement, their competition can attack them underhandedly by saying that they want to make the roads unsafe. On a good note, they got too greedy, so a huge percentage of charged drivers is fighting their charges in courts, thus clogging up the court system and resulting in UNCONSTITUTIONALY long delays.
My problem with our local law enforcement practices lies in the fact that in 2 cases they charged me with those violations even though I had documents to PROVE MY INNOCENCE on the spot. I refuse to believe that police constables are given so little leeway by the politicians as to be forced to charge an innocent person with a violation.
I will blame the politicians for creating a system of law enforcement that allows for such behavior by the police constables. However if those constables put staying within quotas over charging innocent people, then it's also their fault.
I still operate under the assumption that it's my job to prove someone guilty. If we have resources available that will corroborate their innocence, it's my responsibility to explore it, if the situation lends itself to that opportunity. I'm lucky, though. We don't have quotas. I'd rather make one good case than fifty piddly ones...although I'll still take the piddly one. Often, they lead to bigger ones. A speeding ticket may become a drug case, or maybe the driver has a warrant for his/her arrest. You never know 'til you get there. As I've gotten older, though, I'm probably much more inclined to help folks out or give them a break...hell, I got bills to pay, too.
Oh, and charging someone with an offense is not the same as convicting them of it.
You see Joe, that makes you different from those cops that I've had dealings with. You not only review exculpatory evidence but are also willing to give a break.
I am well aware that a charge and conviction are not LEGALLY the same. However, I either have to miss 2 days of work (1 to file my notice to challenge the charge and 1 to challenge it in court) or pay a paralegal $300 to do that for me. Therefore, either way I stand to lose a lot of money, while he gets overtime pay for a safe and cushy court appearance.
I wish more constables had your honest attitude Joe, but I tend to distrust the police and I have hundreds of good reasons for it. 210 and counting.
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Originally Posted by Joe Chandler
Yea, a lot of cops and detectives operate under that assumption. Unfortunately a good majority of them operate under the assumption that it's their job to prove someone guilty even when their innocent. That plus I've yet to meet a prosecutor who's out for justice and not out to win. the justice=vengance permeates society probably in part to being victimized by the justice system on so many fronts. I know first hand of too many corrupt police/prosecutors and not enough honest ones.
I'm trying sooo hard to bite my tongue here as not to offend those in law enforcement in our group. yer making it harder dagnabit! :p
and this tailgating of yours accomplishes what?Quote:
I see no problems with expressing my disapproval when someone is being rude to me.
tailgaiters are a menace regardless of their perceived "ability"
I think this was very well said. I might have just learned something.Quote:
Being a gentleman and practicing chivalry are not macho things. They are a way of life that involves respect. And if someone chooses to disrespect me, it's their loss. I have nothing to prove to anyone, except to me. And that is the fact that I am in control of myself, my feelings and how I react. [-rtaylor]
I also was raised to hold doors for people, open the car door for women, and give my seat to others. Still, I feel that when I have stopped to hold the door for someone that is 30 feet away, that they could acknowledge it. If it makes no difference to them that I hold the door, then what am I doing? I guess this goes back to your point of you being a gentlemen regardless of the other person. Point taken.Quote:
I was raised in Texas, and I was raised to be a Gentleman. I hold doors without expecting a "thank you", but appreciating it when it happens. I allow cars to change lanes in front of me, and hope when necessary, someone will do the same for me. I open car doors for ladies. I give up my seat to ladies and my elders. [-rtaylor]
Again, good point. I try to remember this, but often do not. I think it is something that would do a lot to relieve ill will in general.Quote:
Don't get mad because someone bumps into you or anything without saying sorry, you don't know what people are going through at the moment.[-LX_Emergency]
Allow me to quote from the US Dept. of Transportation website about a nice little program, with my commentary at the end:Quote:
Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT
"The Oklahoma City Police Department started their aggressive driving program September 1, 1998. They have used an extensive media campaign to advise the public about their aggressive driving campaign. The media filmed the unmarked patrol vehicles, as well as possible target locations of where the special unit would be working, but no specific locations were given. When the media blitz first started, no citations were issued the first week. Prior to officers working the aggressive driving campaign, they must attend an eight-hour class to educate them about aggressive driving behaviors that lead to crashes. There are 230 officers trained to work the Reduction of Accident and Aggressive and Inconsiderate Drivers (RAID) cars. The officers are also made aware that if they target the aggressive driving behavior, they will reduce crashes. OCPD has done research, gathered statistics from crashes and fatalities, selected ten high crash areas to target special enforcement and continually reevaluate those numbers to see if new areas are surfacing at high crash areas. They have done several speed surveys and found that after the special unit has worked a high crash area, the travel speed of motorists decreases. "
This program, coupled with week-long problem area speed enforcement by motorcycle patrol units certainly gets folks to slow down. Tickets are a revenue generator. The cheapest ticket for a moving violation in Oklahoma City is $161 plus court costs -- that's speeding up to 10 miles per hour over the limit. They go up to over $300. That's a lot of hard-earned money that I'd rather not give the city.
Additionally, the demands my employer places on us to drive a company vehicle are pretty steep. Mandatory driver safety training ever year. Any ticket, whether in my personal car or not, must be reported to my supervisor no later than the next business day. Any call to our employer regarding the unsafe operation of the vehicles or speeding results in a no questions asked discplinary action, which can include termination.
I've had many an inconsiderate driver that I'd love to give a piece of my mind, but the risk vs. reward simply doesn't add up. Last year a man was killed with a handgun during a road rage incident, all because he was driving too slowly (but within posted speed limits). It's very selfish of me to jeopardize my life, my family's life, my income should I become disabled or dead, just to verbally and/or physically engage some dickhead over his bad driving habits and lack of manners.
I don't posses a concealed carry permit mainly due to legal issues surrounding my martial arts background, which would also demand a lawyer of Johnny Cochran's caliber to defend me for beating the piss out of some asshole who desperately needs it, even if he swung first. It's best to learn to enjoy life. I feel sorry for these poor bastards whose lives are so hurried they have little option but ill behavior and a lack of manners; I doubt their skills of disrespect cease when they exit their vehicle.
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Originally Posted by FUD
Feel free to say what you will. That's what a place like this is for. When I say I operate under the assumption that it's my job to prove someone guilty, I should have said I'll be 100% sure the evidence points to that particular person before I bother them. The simple fact is, I'm only speaking from a police point of view, not a prosecutor's...they're politicians, for the most part, and I've already made my feelings about them rather clear. My A.D.A. is a gutless coward, and his boss (the D.A.) should be in prison, IMO. As for your statement that "a good majority of them (police/detectives) operate under the assumption that it's their job to prove someone guilty even when their innocent."...I respect your position, but I'll have to call bullshit on that one. Most are honest and hardworking, but you never hear about them. It's always the bad ones who grab headlines...it's them you always hear people complaining about. And if a man (or woman) is willing to railroad an innocent person (and that doesn't happen nearly so much as TV leads you to believe), they deserve whatever prison sentence the person they railroaded would have gotten. Crooks, thieves, and liars have no business in law enforcement. We have them, much like any other profession, but I firmly believe they should be rooted out and made to pay. I will not lie for another officer, and I will not go along when they're out of line. Every officer I work with feels the same. I'm sure it's different in different places, but I daresay it's certainly not "a good majority". But often, since the general public doesn't understand what is going on, they assume the officer is wrong. I dunno...I can understand some of the antipathy towards law enforcement; it's just that I know I'm honest, as are the guys I work with, and I treat the people I serve with as much respect as their behavior dictates they deserve, and I hate to see the good ones lumped in with the bad. :(
They sure as hell don't do it here in Ontario. Our tickets aren't that expensive but if you get nailed twice for going 5km over (that's about 3 miles) the speed limit, your insurance goes up as high as 50%. The insurance is mandatory and the prices are set by the insurance institute, which is owned and operated by the insurance industry. It's the same criminal racket as price-setting by the gas retailers. Therefore, people here are fighting any ticket no matter how minor it is, the courts are clogged and the wait times are so long that it's unconstitutional, so people are getting their cases dismissed on constitutional grounds. I think the police and the insurance companies just killed the cow for the milk.
Eventually they'll have to back off minor offenders, focus on prosecuting truly dangerous drivers and thus make the roads safer without getting honest law-obiding citizens all worked up.
As for weapons, I don't know how they came into this discussion, but my take is that they are fun toys as long as they are only handled by responsible people and crooks and/or idiots would have zero access to them. I just don't see it happening any time soon or at any other point in time.
Btw Kyle, do you have any issues with your company going "Big Brother" on you? Employers in Canada still don't have that much power (until the Conservatives reinstate slavery) and it would raise a big outcry here. Actually I'm not 100% sure on that count b/c someone could always start crying "oh would you PLEASE think of the children?" and saying "if you don't support your company in placing cameras inside your house, you are a criminal who has something to hide and support terrorism and child molestation". I'm sorry for the digression but I am STRONGLY opposed to my privacy being slowly suffocated by the government and corporate interests. The one that has me scared is the introduction of biometric identification for immigration purposes at one of our airports. The justification was "to expedite the process". If it becomes a major initiative and then they make it so that it takes 5 hours to go through passport controll unless you give them your retinal scan/voiceprint/fingerprint/dna, I will do whatever it takes to kill that initiative on constitutional grounds. In my line of work, we handle confidential personal data, but we have a heavy onus on privacy. So if one of my subordinates sees a grow-op or a meth lab (while on the job) and reports it to the police, not only can he end up in jail for 6 months, but I'll make sure he gets sentenced to the maximum amount of time and that he gets the additional fine of $1000. Then I'll show up at the parole hearing to make sure he/she doesn't get out early. It's time to draw a line and tell both the governments and the corporations "no more".