The plot thickens

With 20 some pages in the post about opinions on ownership, I thought this little tidbit would be better posted anew. I have suspected that there is more and was more to this incident than is being reported and I have been and always will be skeptic about what is being reported these days.

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Found this on a friends timeline and thought that it bears a great deal of validity on the topic of the recent Denver shooting and the recent matter of the UN Small Arms Treaty that will be used to sell out the 2nd Amendment.
I want to post this while it is still fresh in my mind. Been up since yesterday with this Aurora shooting, listening & reading news reports, putting things together... if I try to do it tomorrow, I might lose the connections between the dots.

I was just about ready to go to bed last night, when I decided to kick over to Fox's web page -- saw the News Alert, so I kicked into iHeartRadio & dialed in KOA radio in Denver. Got to listen to the live news reports while I was looking for more news -- I have friends who live in Aurora, & was a bit worried.

Never went to bed last night.

About 4 am, one of the other Denver stations (9News) reported on the web that Aurora Police had apprehended one of two gunmen -- an Iranian immigrant named Mohammed Alam -- and were still looking for the second gunman.

About 15 minutes later, that report changed to a lone gunman identified as James Holmes.

Earlier today, I found the Aurora PD dispatch tapes which had been linked on FB -- I listened to the whole tape, about 40 minutes worth. I distinctly heard the cop tell his dispatcher that Holmes had claimed that he was the only one, but that every witness had told police that there were two shooters. Later, near the end of the tape, dispatch notified officers that a construction worker had alerted them to a man -- dressed all in black & carrying a red backpack -- who ducked out of an alley further down Alameda Avenue; the tape ended before I heard whether they found him or not.

Now for my questions: they are saying that he used an AR15, a Remington 870 shotgun, and two Glocks -- on the Dispatch audio, the officers on-scene reported 20 to 30 clips littering the floor inside the theater, so he went in with plenty of ammo for the AR.

His shooting spree only lasted between 90 seconds and 2 minutes -- so, how in the hell did he empty & reload the shotgun twice as reported by two witnesses, then burn through 20-30 clips with a SEMI-AUTO AR-15, then empty two Glocks in that time frame if he was alone?

That is just NOT physically possible for one man to do in 2 minutes.



Personally, I do not believe that James Holmes ever fired a single shot; this smacks too much of a 2-man team of SOF operators. I think that Holmes was placed at the scene as a scapegoat -- a guy who had been manipulated, probably over a period of time with psychotropic drugs -- who didn't even know what planet he was on at the time.

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I don't think they were SOF op guys myself. If that were the case, I feel the death count would have been higher. I do think that what happened is not what is being reported as it really is.

Interesting stuff wullie,I do in my heart know one thing tho,If this dude was the lone assailant,He probebly was smoking Maryjuana just before doing this ghastly deed.

If you have any doubts about how fast one person can empty a few weapons:

Lead Dispencer, Spencer Hoglund World Record Stage Run Speed Shooting - YouTube

I wonder how many 100K's of ammo the gent in the vid has expended learning that.

I've burned several hundred K in my lifetime and do not consider myself a slouch, nor do I consider myself an expert.

I can quote Bill Jordan and agree, that "speed is deadly, accuracy is fatal."

FYI, some interesting follow ups on drudgereport.com at the moment.

There are for sure small details we will not learn, but the though of SF trained gunmen, almost made my choke on my papaya shake I'm having now.

Twenty to thirty "clips", if said at all, probably referred to "casings" on the floor.

Said to say, but I worked with men & women on the job, that could not tell the difference between clips & magazines and chips & dips.

On top of everything, now we've thrown the Iranians into the mix, go figure.

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Originally Posted by Hirlau

Said to say, but I worked with men & women on the job, that could not tell the difference between clips & magazines and chips & dips.

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IIRC the police who handled the murder of Dallas police officer J.D. Tippet initially reported the revolver found at the scene as being a semi auto. The Dallas police definitely ID'd the rifle in the school book depository as a Mauser. That was changed to a Carcano later that day or maybe the next.

Gentlemen, correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't see any firearm on that list that uses clips??? Now if they were talkin' SKS, I might have believed it ;)

As I recall they said he had a drum magazine that held like 50 rounds or so.

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Interesting stuff wullie,I do in my heart know one thing tho,If this dude was the lone assailant,He probebly was smoking Maryjuana just before doing this ghastly deed.

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¿¿¿What on earth does Mary Jane have to do with this???
Please tell me you're just trolling with that comment. It has no place in a remotely dignified and intelligent conversation.


Just to humor it though and rebut it; I'll be shocked if he had smoked up just prior to this. If he had smoked up the old wacky weed he would have ordered a few pizzas and vegged out to cartoons, Kung Fu movies, or Mario Kart and then fallen in to a restful sleep.

As hirlau said, I seriously doubt that there were 30 magazines on the ground. Just think of how heavy that would be, let alone how suspicious that would make the gunman look.

Second person of interest: http://kdvr.com/2012/07/21/police-lo...ater-shooting/

Kind of mixed messages from this story. Looking for a second person but they don't think he had anything to do with it.

Excerpts from The Telegraph.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The first video footage of the suspect showed him as an awkward, nervous 18-year-old giving a talk at a science summer camp in San Diego on "temporal illusions". It also emerged that in the days before the attack, Holmes, a cannabis smoker, joined a dating website seeking women for "sexy times" and also tried to join a gun club.

After the massacre Holmes calmly told detectives he had taken 100mg of the prescription painkiller Vicodin, and identified himself as "The Joker". The same drug was found in the system of actor Heath Ledger when he died of an accidental overdose of prescription drugs in 2008. Ledger played The Joker in the previous Batman film The Dark Knight. Vicodin side-effects can include euphoria, paranoia and, in rare cases, hallucinations.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

I haven't run across anything yet about a second shooter. It probably emerged from "the fog of war".

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Originally Posted by bharner

¿¿¿What on earth does Mary Jane have to do with this???
Please tell me you're just trolling with that comment. It has no place in a remotely dignified and intelligent conversation.


Just to humor it though and rebut it; I'll be shocked if he had smoked up just prior to this. If he had smoked up the old wacky weed he would have ordered a few pizzas and vegged out to cartoons, Kung Fu movies, or Mario Kart and then fallen in to a restful sleep.

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See Post # 12 Sir,Every anti drug/gun/ammo fanatic grp will be all over everything,I do not troll:(

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

See Post # 12 Sir,Every anti drug/gun/ammo fanatic grp will be all over everything,I do not troll:(

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Cannabis is decriminalized in CO (or was), if I recall correctly and legal for medical use. I'd be interested if any Psych meds were in his system as well.
As someone who may have been stupid in his teenage years I'm 100% certain that I never committed any mass murders while under the influence. It may have been in his system but it wouldn't be the cause of a violent rage.
Now the Vicodin is another matter altogether. Due to chronic illness I have a perpetual prescription for percocet. I am aware of what it does to my body and on the occasions I find myself using it too often my wife and I "detox" me and I don't use it for a month without notifying my MD of each time I use it. It can cause some serious issues and has messed up many a mind.

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Originally Posted by bharner

Cannabis is decriminalized in CO (or was), if I recall correctly and legal for medical use. I'd be interested if any Psych meds were in his system as well.
As someone who may have been stupid in his teenage years I'm 100% certain that I never committed any mass murders while under the influence. It may have been in his system but it wouldn't be the cause of a violent rage.
Now the Vicodin is another matter altogether. Due to chronic illness I have a perpetual prescription for percocet. I am aware of what it does to my body and on the occasions I find myself using it too often my wife and I "detox" me and I don't use it for a month without notifying my MD of each time I use it. It can cause some serious issues and has messed up many a mind.

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Have nothing against MJ,just your rude comment in post # 9,as far as Cannabis and violent acts,Educate yourself by doing some reaserch as to why the british developed the so called Dum-Dum round for the .303.
Have you ever heard of the hashhasians? some very good info.:)

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Have nothing against MJ,just your rude comment in post # 9,as far as Cannabis and violent acts,Educate yourself by doing some reaserch as to why the british developed the so called Dum-Dum round for the .303.
Have you ever heard of the hashhasians? some very good info.:)

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I'll do some reading tonight. And I meant no disrespect in my post but your post came across as incredibly trolltastic laying the blame at a substance ( and not at the perp) which is considered, by most of the developed world, less problematic than alcohol for the majority of its users. (I am not advocating illegal drug use, just researching the topic to see more than one viewpoint) .

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Originally Posted by bharner

Cannabis is decriminalized in CO (or was), if I recall correctly and legal for medical use. I'd be interested if any Psych meds were in his system as well.
As someone who may have been stupid in his teenage years I'm 100% certain that I never committed any mass murders while under the influence. It may have been in his system but it wouldn't be the cause of a violent rage.
Now the Vicodin is another matter altogether. Due to chronic illness I have a perpetual prescription for percocet. I am aware of what it does to my body and on the occasions I find myself using it too often my wife and I "detox" me and I don't use it for a month without notifying my MD of each time I use it. It can cause some serious issues and has messed up many a mind.

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There might be a few groundhog families that disagree with that. :hmmm:

Attachment 102019

..........inside joke with bharner......

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Originally Posted by bharner

Now the Vicodin is another matter altogether. Due to chronic illness I have a perpetual prescription for percocet. I am aware of what it does to my body and on the occasions I find myself using it too often my wife and I "detox" me and I don't use it for a month without notifying my MD of each time I use it. It can cause some serious issues and has messed up many a mind.

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Sorry to hear that Bharner, I have had a couple of serious surgeries that landed oxycodone and percocet in my hands. Each time I knew I was out of control by the end of the bottle, I just thank god I was wise enough to not refill them.
Anyways that was many moons ago before, I would hope I would be stronger then that now, but who knows.
I know my wife is aware of it, and im sure she wouldnt allow either into our house under any circumstance.

To anyone reading this thinking "that could never happen to me" you are very wrong, you dont take these drugs, they take you.

Anyways, back to the theories already, I have popcorn popping, could be the munchies.... lol

Hirlau, I started giggling so hard I almost choked on my pie.
:thumbup:

Don't do that, they will come and get me for murder by keyboard. :D

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Originally Posted by Hirlau

Don't do that, they will come and get me for murder by keyboard. :D

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Lucky for you it was just a chocolate cream pie with bananas and a graham cracker crust. If that sucker had been a good peanut butter pie or rhubarb pie they'd be looking for you by now.

Just in from Fox....

The Colorado shooter mailed a notebook full of his killing plans to the to a University of Colorado psychiatrist -- but it sat in a mailroom for a week before it was discovered.

He must have expected Batman to show up and stop him.

I'm going to wait about 2 weeks for the news sources to all agree on the same story.

If they have a slightly different story, then they are probably telling the truth. If they agree in all details, then they are probably working from the same handout. Now apply my last sentence to the first paragraph. :D

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Originally Posted by Sticky

I'm going to wait about 2 weeks for the news sources to all agree on the same story.

If they have a slightly different story, then they are probably telling the truth. If they agree in all details, then they are probably working from the same handout. Now apply my last sentence to the first paragraph. :D

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I figure the ONLY thing the BIG lamestream media will agree on about that issue is that GUNS NEED TO BE OUTLAWED....... ;)

Personally, I think Michael Moore and several others of his ilk should be outlawed. But HEY, what do I know?
http://i658.photobucket.com/albums/u...bandits_77.jpg

Wow, media bias.

The Aurora Shooting You Didn't Hear About In The Media : Freedom Outpost

If only there had been one CCW person in the theater.

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Originally Posted by Crotalus

Wow, media bias.

The Aurora Shooting You Didn't Hear About In The Media : Freedom Outpost

If only there had been one CCW person in the theater.

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Remember,Holmes was wearing full,pro grade body armor

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Remember,Holmes was wearing full,pro grade body armor

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Even with body armor, getting shot HURTS. A shot or two to the legs would have stopped him in any case.

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Remember,Holmes was wearing full,pro grade body armor

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About 30 years ago, I was messin around with some cop buddies of mine. Just happened to be the day the the salesman for body armor showed up to demonstrate his product. Back then the officers had to buy their own stuff in that little department. He strapped a vest on the dummy and they took turns popping at it with 38's and 357's. I watched all the fun and listened to the spiel.

When the old boy got done, I asked him if could shoot the dummy with a .22. That salesman nearly peed himself laughing and told me to go ahead.

I shot the dummy between the eyes..:rofl2:

The salesman was :dropjaw:

He didn't make any sales that day. :w

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Originally Posted by Crotalus

Even with body armor, getting shot HURTS. A shot or two to the legs would have stopped him in any case.

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Not really Viper, thats why he took the Vicodan:)

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Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Interesting stuff wullie,I do in my heart know one thing tho,If this dude was the lone assailant,He probebly was smoking Maryjuana just before doing this ghastly deed.

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If the guy had been smoking pot he would have been too apathetic to get out of the apartment.... unless the munchies hit him.

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Originally Posted by parkerskouson

As hirlau said, I seriously doubt that there were 30 magazines on the ground. Just think of how heavy that would be, let alone how suspicious that would make the gunman look.

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But if there were two gunmen....


As a former infantryman I can assure you that I could carry 30 M16/AR15 mags, fully loaded with ball ammo, not blanks, and still do quite a bit of running and jumping, dodging and ducking. Thats what the bellows pockets on the trousers were for. Probably couldnt run around the house like that now.

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Originally Posted by Wullie

When the old boy got done, I asked him if could shoot the dummy with a .22. That salesman nearly peed himself laughing and told me to go ahead.

I shot the dummy between the eyes..:rofl2:

The salesman was :dropjaw:

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Thirty or so years ago one of the business agents in the ironworker's local I belonged to was a rough customer. Known for being brutal in a fight and he would fight at the drop of a hat ..... and he would drop the hat. He and another brother ironworker went into a bar in Davie, Florida. It was a "cowboy" bar and known for fights and shooting and cutting scrapes. On this particular day there was a big fellow at the bar betting a dollar per person that they couldn't double him over with their best punch to his stomach.

So after he watched a few guys take their best shot he walked up to this fellow and said, " How about me buddy ?" The big blustering hardcase said,"Well how about you .... you #**#!!" So Howard put his dollar on the bar and asked the fellow if he was ready. The big fellow was all flexed and puffed up, waiting for the punch to the stomach, and nodded and grunted that he was ready.

Howard came up from the floor and hit him with a left hook to the jaw. That big fellow went down like he was a pole axed steer. Howard picked the two dollars up off of the bar and he and the other ironworker high tailed it to parts unknown to have a drink and laugh about the experience. True story BTW.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Thirty or so years ago one of the business agents in the ironworker's local I belonged to was a rough customer. Known for being brutal in a fight and he would fight at the drop of a hat ..... and he would drop the hat. He and another brother ironworker went into a bar in Davie, Florida. It was a "cowboy" bar and known for fights and shooting and cutting scrapes. On this particular day there was a big fellow at the bar betting a dollar per person that they couldn't double him over with their best punch to his stomach.

So after he watched a few guys take their best shot he walked up to this fellow and said, " How about me buddy ?" The big blustering hardcase said,"Well how about you .... you #**#!!" So Howard put his dollar on the bar and asked the fellow if he was ready. The big fellow was all flexed and puffed up, waiting for the punch to the stomach, and nodded and grunted that he was ready.

Howard came up from the floor and hit him with a left hook to the jaw. That big fellow went down like he was a pole axed steer. Howard picked the two dollars up off of the bar and he and the other ironworker high tailed it to parts unknown to have a drink and laugh about the experience. True story BTW.

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I had a buddy like that. Tougher than wet leather he was. His name was Kenneth. He died a bout 10 years ago. Anyway, Kenneth was shooting 9 ball with some clown in the littel bar across from the truck out at Road Forks, NM. Kenneth was winning handily. Kenneth won the 4th or 5th game and turned away from the table for something or other. When he turned back to the table, the guy he'd been playing smacked him across the forehead with his cue stick. The stick broke, Kenneth shook his head, looked right straight at the guy that had swung it and said, "Guess it's my shot now." just as cool, calm, and collected as you could imagine.

The old boy that swung the stick, blinked in wide eyed amazement at Kenneth. Kenneth grinned and brought an uppercut from about ankle high into that clown's jaw. It sounded like he hit him with a 2x4. He went down
like a tree, The back of his head hit that wood floor and I figured his neck was broke. He was still breathing and twitching though. The place got quiet as a church and the owner walked around the end of the bar, handed Kenneth a beer and proceeded to drag the punk feet first out the door and down 4 steps with his head banging every step. He dragged him out of the path and left him there. He walked back in and simply said,"the sumbitch had that one coming I reckon."

The guy had apparently come to by the time Kenneth and I decided we'd had enough and went back to our trucks to sleep off our fun. He was gone when we left.

Weren't too many dull moments when Kenneth was around.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Thirty or so years ago one of the business agents in the ironworker's local I belonged to was a rough customer. Known for being brutal in a fight and he would fight at the drop of a hat ..... and he would drop the hat. He and another brother ironworker went into a bar in Davie, Florida. It was a "cowboy" bar and known for fights and shooting and cutting scrapes. On this particular day there was a big fellow at the bar betting a dollar per person that they couldn't double him over with their best punch to his stomach.

So after he watched a few guys take their best shot he walked up to this fellow and said, " How about me buddy ?" The big blustering hardcase said,"Well how about you .... you #**#!!" So Howard put his dollar on the bar and asked the fellow if he was ready. The big fellow was all flexed and puffed up, waiting for the punch to the stomach, and nodded and grunted that he was ready.

Howard came up from the floor and hit him with a left hook to the jaw. That big fellow went down like he was a pole axed steer. Howard picked the two dollars up off of the bar and he and the other ironworker high tailed it to parts unknown to have a drink and laugh about the experience. True story BTW.

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So that's why Uncle Al's Bar, down the street here in Davie, has a sign outside, over the door, that says, "Ironworkers Not Welcome!"

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Originally Posted by nun2sharp

If the guy had been smoking pot he would have been too apathetic to get out of the apartment.... unless the munchies hit him.

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He'd keep putting the massacre off until another day.