Wow! 21 years!? That's 99.5 days in jail for every person he, with premeditation... went out and killed!!
Go Norway...
BBC News - Anders Behring Breivik rules out verdict appeal
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Wow! 21 years!? That's 99.5 days in jail for every person he, with premeditation... went out and killed!!
Go Norway...
BBC News - Anders Behring Breivik rules out verdict appeal
What I heard was 10-21 years, and I changed the channel, in anger, then Fox said that it was 10-21 years but it could be extended at a later date, and I started watching Falling Skies as it seemed more believable :(
As I understand it, that's the maximum sentence available under Norwegian law BUT it can also be extended indefinitely should the individual in question be deemed a threat to society. I would be very surprised if Mr. Breivik ever sees the outside of a prison.
Wow! I thought murder was pretty cheap here. Norway must be having a sale!
No offense meant towards our brothers there. But it just doesnt seem right to me that this lunatic can take so many young lives and get off so easy.
We can hope that there will be some inmates wherever they put him that will see too it that he doesn't live to complete his sentence.
So I have a friend in Norway who has something like 8 kids, and like Glen after reading the headline I just went back to serfing watches on the web as I was dumbfounded... Falling Skies did seem more believable.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
When I went back to the story... well I get it sort of. I mean I understand law a bit and sure, maybe he'll never see life outside of jail again but I just couldn't get past that 21 years thing. For every kid he shot and killed he got a mere 3 months and a week... As a father I just wouldn't feel right even if I was Norwegian and knew better...Quote:
Originally Posted by Cangooner
That's funny!Quote:
Originally Posted by nun2sharp
Then my mind went here... I hope you are right Jimmy. Sorry, but killing kids is just where my mind goes on instinct - even after all this time.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
I'm sure there's 0% chance of release after 21 years, that number is just a formality.
I personally hate it when others from foreign nations feel free to weigh in on what and how we do things here in America. Norway lost their countrymen. And Norway delt with it their way. I'm sure there is some kind of men there who are 'mobbed up' and will clip this guy given the chance. But I will not include myself in wagging a finger at a fine nation, over their business. Even though I believe that man should have been hanged this afternoon.
21 years is the maximum penalty under Norwegian law.
But he did not receive a regular 21 years of imprisonment.
What he did receive was something we call special detention.
What that means is he is to be detained untill deemed rehabilitated or no longer a danger to society.
I would doubt very much that he would ever be regarded as either by most any Norwegian.
If it makes you lot feel better, then let's just call it life imprisonment, becuse that is what will happen in this case.
Thanks Birnando, hopefully your explanation curtails the alarmism...
That sounds a little better "B", to our American ears we mostly think "The Death Penalty" or at the least "Life plus 100 years" for we feel unless there is a true finality to the sentence that they "Could" get out on Parole..
I think to my mind there is nothing worse then the thought of a Murderer being released from prison, I could not imagine being a Loved one of a murder victim knowing that they might someday walk the same street as I do again... That to me would be the definition of Hell
Thank you Birnando, that clarifies things.
If they had had the death penalty then he would have been a martyr to some, this way is better.
21 years is maximum penalty in Norway, but it can be prolonged on 5 year periods after he has done his 21. He will be isolated from the other prisoners too, spending his time alone.
My guess is that he will never be a free man again but will stay in prison for the rest of his days.
I'm loving how the Americans are demanding his execution (snark).
Indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
I think that your thoughts here are very much in sync with the vast majority over here as well.
In my ways, our legal system was not ready for an event like this, and we've had to use what was available within our current ones.
The very thought of this sicko ever hitting the streets again sits very very wrong with people over here, and I suspect it would be a rather unpleasant freedom for him.
Shortlived even:)
Birnando
Thank you for your two clarification posts. I almost popped a blood vessel when I initially saw the 21 year sentence. I am still uneasy though because I wonder if those extensions to his sentence will be based on a psychiatric assessment at each interval? If that is the case, then there is still a slim chance of his release at some point. Personally he does not deserve even that slim possibility and I think the ability to invoke the death penalty would have been a far better solution in this case.
Bob
The court decided he was accountable (i.e he knew clearly what he was doing) not psychotic so his extensions will be decided by the juridical authorities, not psychiatrists.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
The Breivik case has been reported widely here. Not only because they are our good neighbors but because there are some small political parties who keep big noise about understanding Breivik and his motives. Such a wackos.
Uhhh... There might be a Canuck or two in that mix MLA.Quote:
Originally Posted by mapleleafalumnus
You know - I don't necessarily believe in the death penalty. My reasoning is quite simple: until you can convince me that there is a Hell, then I think revenge is best served alive. And if I was a victim, I would want revenge. I am just not developed enough mentally to forgive these kinds of acts... Call it immaturity or whatever you like, but at my age I am not sure i am going to change.
I would want to know the person who committed these acts was suffering! Anyway, it's cases like this though that make's me wonder if I haven't got it wrong with my not believing in the death penalty.
That's what justice in this world has come to. Murder might get you a few years, but don't dare steal a loaf of bread.
Hmmmm, Sounds very Le Mis to me :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefighter2
Sailor
Thank you for the clarification and I hope you are right.
David
I am like you not totally convinced about the death penalty. I have said before that I do not trust our legal system to get it right enough times to go for it. OTH with crimes like this there can be not a shadow of doubt that he did do it and my preference would be execution to save money and put an end to a useless piece of skin. Yea, I am a lefty Canuck. Unfortunately that is not an option in Norway and they have given the harshest sentence possible within their current legal system. You make do with what you have. I can't and won't fault Norway on the outcome.
Bob
If he did this crime in Texas,they have what they call an "Express lane ". Why waste tax payer money keeping this maggot alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by mapleleafalumnus
Rant warning! You have to realize that imprisonment means different things around the world. Here in the US, it just means imprisonment. In many other parts of the world it means rehabilitation. We can throw stones as much as we want, but in the end, we should respect how these countries are at least trying to rehabilitate their inmates. I wish that the US system did more in the way of rehab. As it is, the prison system here is just the proverbial revolving door with many who have been released finding their way back into the system. The money spent on housing inmates with life sentences and on death row could probably be spent better by educating the inmates and giving them the tools to function if and when they get out. End of rant.
Canada has been on the rehab kick for at least 40 odd years and I don't know if it is working or not. If I were cynical I would think it was a justification for the government to keep the prison population at a level that did not require more prison capacity. I would like to think it works but I also know that not all are rehab-able.
We are about to reverse course with the right wing government in power now bent on going the American plan by getting "tough" on crime and necessitating more prisons to accommodate the increasing influx of prisoners that will create. That route does not seemed to have worked all that well either from all reports.
Another tough problem with lots of questions and no pat easy answers to fall back on.
Bob
For the Christians amongst us, Romans 12:19 is succinct.
Technically, yes. Realistically no.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
In fact, even IF he would ever change and stop being a danger (which is unlikely in the extreme), noone will ever put their signature under his release form because he has become an icon of evil. Kind of like Marc Dutroux or Freddy Horion in Belgium. Those people will never ever breath free air again.
Isn't the mere act of placing a man in jail revenge? I would think that passage to vague? For me... What would you have the public do? Let him roam the streets killing until he figures it out for himself?Quote:
Originally Posted by welshwizard
I think that for most Christians, execution would be classed as revenge. Incarceration, likely to be permanent in Brevik's case, is necessary to protect society.Quote:
Originally Posted by earcutter
The death penalty is no deterrent and it never has been.
it should be very simple, you knowingly take another life in the commission of a crime and you then forfeit your own.
Thanks, I am not sure I see it that way, but I respect what you are saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by welshwizard
You know I hang around all together too many lawyers now that I think about it, and yes... it seems that the death penalty isn't a deterrent. I have been told this over and over - been shown the study's... But I still have some reservations. Sure it will not stop crimes of passion, but what about those that are thought out. Say things like drive-bys. You might think twice before you whip out your six shooter and start shooting up the hood knowing that you might get the chair if you hit someone.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebigspendur
I mean chopping off your left hand in some country's has been proven to be a very effective deterant.
A life for a life seems rational to me...?? I just don't trust the system to get it right, and hence my hesitation. How many times do we have to prove the wrong person got the chair? Man that's a crime in itself.
The sentence seemed shockingly short to me too. Especially since this was more than just murder, it was an act of terrorism. But it's nice to know that the guy is really likely to be in prison for life. Over here he would probably get at least 150 yrs in prison, with exactly the same result.
Michael
77=21 years seems a bit odd, but as our Norwegian friend explained, he might be rotting in there for life. Over here, taking 1 life will get you hanged...let alone 77. Owning a gun without permit will also get you a death penalty...although it doesn't completely deter killer with guns, I personally think it help to a certain extent.
I agree that you'd think it helps, but studies and history have shown it doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by pesa
Studies in the US have shown that execution is effective in deterring murder:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Getting Off Death Row (.PDF), paper published in The Journal of Law and Economics (2003).
Execution and Deterrence (.PDF), paper published in Applied Economics (2001).
Does Capital Punishment Have a Deterrent Effect? (.PDF), paper published in American Law and Economics Review (2003).
Testimony by David Muhlhausen, Ph.D., given to the Senate Judiciary Committee in 2007, although admittedly Mr. Muhlhausen is an analyst for a conservative think tank.
There's been some call to abolish death penalty in Malaysia too recently, saying it it doesn't deter crime etc...but I gather the general view is that people over here want the punishment to stay especially for homicides. I can't speak for the rest of the people, but even if it doesn't deter it, i personally view it as the FAIR punishment. A life for a life.