The 'Art" of Negotiation

One thing that being in the car business taught me is everything is negotiable, Everything

What brought this up was in the last week I received my Home Phone bill and my Car Insurance bill for the past 2 years my phone bill has been $50-$54 I had negotiated that bill when we decided that we really did not need the home phone other then for emergency calls... This phone bill bumped up to $67 last month $64 so I called..


I simply asked "Why" ??? I got the "Well our prices have changed", my response "And your services haven't" ??? I then explained that like everyone else, I have to really think about whether a land line is even needed any longer, our house has set that need at $50, if the bill stays in that range we "Need" it once it goes over that range we no longer "Need" it.. Putting the ball back in their court, their response was "Well sir we can adjust the payment for the next 2 years" I said "Good idea, I'll keep the phone for the next 2 years and we'll talk then" savings = $408


Car Insurance was the same it jumped $52 for 6 months I called "Why" ??? answer "Well our premium for Idaho went up" my response "Hmmmm 5 years and no claims, my vehicles have only gone down in value which means less monetary exposer for your company, and I have added 2 ATVs and a Boat to the policy since we began"
Them "Well sir our premium for Idaho has changed"
Me "Hmmm ok let me put this another way, at $52 more I start shopping, just like I did when you got me as a customer in the first place"
Them "Well Sir we do have a discount that may apply let me check and get back with you"
Me "Good idea"

Savings = $104 per year


Total for the next 2 years $616 that is some more razors :nj


Every business right now is all about customer retention, if they raise the prices for no apparent reason call and ask "Why" ??? especially if you can shop other companies...

As my good Italian buddy says " ifa you dona ask you dona get". You got nothing to lose and something to possibly gain.

Bob

I'll keep this lesson in mind when I visit your website...:rofl2:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

One thing that being in the car business taught me is everything is negotiable, Everything

[snip]

Every business right now is all about customer retention, if they raise the prices for no apparent reason call and ask "Why" ??? especially if you can shop other companies...

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I think this is THE crux of the matter: specifically, if you can shop other companies. Sadly, here in SoFLA so many of our "choices" are no longer choices.

Cable TV: Besides Comcast, there is no other provider; and DirecTV/Dish are non-starters (cableTV is included in condo association dues, and no external dishes are allowed).

Telephone: Having landline phone service is a "must", given the hurricane/tropical storm activity -- when the electricity goes out, cellphone's stop working (as do cordless landline phones).

Internet: Cable or telephone company (DSL), take your pick... but there aren't any discounts (and you'll be among the lucky, if your download/upload speeds are anywhere near the advertised speeds for which you're already paying.)

As for automobile insurance... well, I can't afford either a beater OR the insurance coverage (we won't even discuss gasoline or upkeep).

I guess I'll just spend more time honing... :banghead:

Now isn't that the way to deal with businesses? All this crap about evil corporate America. Without us customers and the revenues from our pockets, they're nothing. Vote with your wallet and they get the message. Any industry (medical insurance??) subject to competition would be affected the same. Those that understand the liberty of the free market negotiate, those that don't, legislate.

Yes it is a good point but only if you can shop around. My quarterly electricity bill is in the $550 range, and the electricity company recently sent a letter telling us that the prices per kilowatt hour are rising by something like 20% on the normal tariff, and almost 40% on the discount tariff (making it no longer a discount tariff in my book, but anyway...).

I went shopping around for another supplier, turns out they are all doing exactly the same because the electricity generator is upping prices, and in my part of the world there's only one of those. And there are not many people rushing to build carbon emitting coal burning electricity generators to provide competition nowadays. And the government just reduced the incentive to put solar electricity panels on the roof to the point where any savings over the years are more than offset by the initial outlay for a house of my size.

So unfortunately when it comes to my biggest bill I am a price taker.

James.

VoIP can still work as long as you've got a UPS and/or a backup genny. Since we don't use the landline a lot, $25 lasts us about 6 months ($1 per month for the phone number, 1c per minute anywhere in North America). Unfortunately, too many businesses are selling to captive audiences, so Vaseline is often the only option for the consumer.

Rule number 1 of negotiation is: The party that is prepared to walk away will win… every time.

Rule number 2: The party with the most information will win… every time.

If you combine rule number one and rule number two, well …

My bride and I visit a number of Antique shows and flea markets. We have a routine, when one of us asks the other “What do you think of this? The other, frowns, shakes their head slightly and starts to walk away.

This weekend this exact technique, netted us a rusty but pristine 4 inch Dunlap, made in USA bench vice for 12 dollars and a 50-100 year old, well-worn uchipped, 7 inch basalt mortar and pestle, (Molcajete) for 8 dollars.

Health insurance in my state is a bitch,wife and I are to young to get medicare,Are 1500 private Health insurers in this country (for the self employed) only 6 are allowed to broker Insurance in my state,all are owned by blue shild anthem.
I pay $1050.00 P/Mo. for health insurance,No Vision,No dental, never a claim, 10K deductable.
Some companys have Iron clad monopolys,and there is not a friggin thing you can do about it:(

Insurance of any kind, but particularly health insurance, is a funny thing. Any kind of insurance is a gamble, in the true sense of the word. However, to the person wanting insurance it seems like a necessity because to them the stakes are too high, especially when it comes to health. To the insurance company, it is all just a gamble, and a gamble weighted in their favour by design (so not really a gamble at all in fact).

I've trained a lot of actuarial students, some of whom even had the brains to go on to become one. To the actuary you are a data point among millions and millions of other data points. You and your actions help them categorise and quantify risk, work out expected time to "failure" (pay out), and all those fun things that go into what they like to call "premium", but I consider more the "minimum stakes of living".

And when it comes to medical insurance, the whole issue is cloudy. Why do we need medical insurance? Everyone breaks down and dies eventually - you cannot insure against that. In my mind medical insurance exists because of the exorbitant costs the medical "profession" (and I use that term lightly) have managed to foist on us over the years. Why are we not complaining about the cost of machines that go "ping"? Or the "Specialist" who turns up, cups your testicles for 30 seconds, and charges you $500 for the privilege? If medical treatment didn't cost ridiculous, unmerited, and unscrutinised prices, health insurance would be very much more affordable.

James.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

One thing that being in the car business taught me is everything is negotiable, Everything

What brought this up was in the last week I received my Home Phone bill and my Car Insurance bill for the past 2 years my phone bill has been $50-$54 I had negotiated that bill when we decided that we really did not need the home phone other then for emergency calls... This phone bill bumped up to $67 last month $64 so I called..


I simply asked "Why" ??? I got the "Well our prices have changed", my response "And your services haven't" ??? I then explained that like everyone else, I have to really think about whether a land line is even needed any longer, our house has set that need at $50, if the bill stays in that range we "Need" it once it goes over that range we no longer "Need" it.. Putting the ball back in their court, their response was "Well sir we can adjust the payment for the next 2 years" I said "Good idea, I'll keep the phone for the next 2 years and we'll talk then" savings = $408


Car Insurance was the same it jumped $52 for 6 months I called "Why" ??? answer "Well our premium for Idaho went up" my response "Hmmmm 5 years and no claims, my vehicles have only gone down in value which means less monetary exposer for your company, and I have added 2 ATVs and a Boat to the policy since we began"
Them "Well sir our premium for Idaho has changed"
Me "Hmmm ok let me put this another way, at $52 more I start shopping, just like I did when you got me as a customer in the first place"
Them "Well Sir we do have a discount that may apply let me check and get back with you"
Me "Good idea"

Savings = $104 per year


Total for the next 2 years $616 that is some more razors :nj


Every business right now is all about customer retention, if they raise the prices for no apparent reason call and ask "Why" ??? especially if you can shop other companies...

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yea, so, I want that loaded new pickup at half price or I'll go somewhere else.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

In my mind medical insurance exists because of the exorbitant costs the medical "profession" (and I use that term lightly) have managed to foist on us over the years. Why are we not complaining about the cost of machines that go "ping"? Or the "Specialist" who turns up, cups your testicles for 30 seconds, and charges you $500 for the privilege? If medical treatment didn't cost ridiculous, unmerited, and unscrutinised prices, health insurance would be very much more affordable.

James.

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Well medical expenses were affordable and reasonable until the insurance game came along.
I do agree that doctors walk in a hospital room, look at the chart, sign it and bam, $$$$$.
However, when you were allowed to go to the Dr. then just pay for your service, it was reasonable.
That is a thing of the past. (except Texas I hear)

Hospital bills are negotiable as well.

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Originally Posted by GG1

Well medical expenses were affordable and reasonable until the insurance game came along.
I do agree that doctors walk in a hospital room, look at the chart, sign it and bam, $$$$$.
However, when you were allowed to go to the Dr. then just pay for your service, it was reasonable.
That is a thing of the past. (except Texas I hear)

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Medical Expenses are off the wall because of what the american public wants,has nothing to do with the docs or the hospitals,cases in point: The sue crazy public has created a situation wherby the last Cardiac surgeon I spent 30 yrs with is forced to pay 80K/yr for malp. ins,He has never been sued,The gadget american public demands the best care and training possible from the doc.In the cae of my surgeon,12 years at stanford was not cheap,and during that 12 years he made nothing. Gadgets,People like toys,whether they work or not,In alot of cases they do not,Take Robotic surg.
Robots,I want the Robot:) Do you have any Idea how many millions of bux they cost?
John Q public is the reason costs are off the wall,NOT the docs.
Yes, you can negotiate hospital bills,after the collection agency Takes every dime you have,puts a lien on your home and cars,when you and your family are living on the street with no food to eat,at that time they will write of the balance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GG1

Well medical expenses were affordable and reasonable until the insurance game came along.
I do agree that doctors walk in a hospital room, look at the chart, sign it and bam, $$$$$.
However, when you were allowed to go to the Dr. then just pay for your service, it was reasonable.
That is a thing of the past. (except Texas I hear)

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No, hospital bill were affordable until big for profit corporations came along. The insurance issue is a ruse. Do you know how many people die in hospitals each year because of medical errors, mostly preventable? It sounds great to blame the insurers and public and it sounds great to limit liability but what happens when your child goes into surgery and comes out dependent on caregivers the rest of his life and the liability maximum won't even cover 2 years of care?

Going back to the OP, Glen's right, practically everything is negotiable if the consumer is willing to ask "Why?" Most do not, so companies make profits on those who do not take the time to call and ask why. Take a close look at your cell phone service bill and you'll probably find odd charges in small amounts that add up. My wife called company x for an explanation of said charges, and with no real answer or response, the company agreed to take them off our bill.

The best recent example I have involved the cable company. We decided to down-grade our cable package to basic service in an effort to save money. The service representative informed me there is $50 charge for the change in packages. I asked Why? She told me it was because it was considered a "service call" to send a technician out to our house to make the change.

I said, "Your company is charging me to down-grade my cable, why?"
She said, "Yes sir, it's a service call."'
My reponse, "If I cancel my service entirely right now, there is no charge, is that correct?"
She: "I see your point sir, I will go ahead and waive the fee.
Me: "Thank-you."

Take some time to ask "Why?" and your wallet will thank you in the end.

Update: The car insurance fell through and said that the discount that they were going to give would not fit my policy I very politely said "Oh no problem at all, since I have already shopped other companies and you guys are beat on the same coverages for cars and the toys by $208 per year so I am cancelling all 3 policies".. "Thank you for calling me back.. :) can you transfer me to the Off Road and Boat dept now ???? so I can cancel them too"

It works about some things and doesn't work for others. I was simply paying my internet bill for years, until one day over drinks one of my friends told me that he had just called his internet company and asked them to lower his price. I figured, hmm may be I should try this out, it does make sense.
So I called and told them, you see, right now you have a half price for a year for new subscribers. May be you can switch me to that plan because otherwise I may just cancel and sign up again, which means I'm going to waste time and have internet downtime, and you'll have to pay your technicians to disconnect and reconnect me again. Can we just skip the overhead and end up at the end point with the easiest effort. And they said 'sure, I will go ahead and make the change'. So, since then, once a year when my bill doubles, I call them and ask that they extend that pricing, or I may just start sharing my internet with my neighbors, which is a little bit less convenient for me, but a pure revenue loss for them. Has been working like a charm.

On the other hand, the electric company is in a completely different category - I can choose who I buy the energy from, but I still have to go through them for the delivery. They know that they have a monopoly and they have rigid pricing.

As far as healthcare goes, I thought that the Obamacare with all those exchanges would be more loved by the conservatives. I also think that as soon as the society is willing to go for pay before you get any treatment, even emergency, system, then the mandate should be simply dropped off. I mean, if you want freedom, you should be able to live free and reap both the benefits and suffer the consequences of it. But at present our society doesn't allow people to die if they don't carry enough cash, so mandating some minimum contribution from everybody for that privilege seems like a reasonable way to go.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

No, hospital bill were affordable until big for profit corporations came along. The insurance issue is a ruse. Do you know how many people die in hospitals each year because of medical errors, mostly preventable? It sounds great to blame the insurers and public and it sounds great to limit liability but what happens when your child goes into surgery and comes out dependent on caregivers the rest of his life and the liability maximum won't even cover 2 years of care?

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I agree, before the for profit hospital came along it was all non profit hospitals, Community General, Baptist Hospital, Catholic, Jewish etc. I think it cost dad 50$ or something comparable the day I was born, I forget how many thousands it was for my last kid.

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

Yes it is a good point but only if you can shop around

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by gugi

On the other hand, the electric company is in a completely different category - I can choose who I buy the energy from, but I still have to go through them for the delivery. They know that they have a monopoly and they have rigid pricing.

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Yep. It helps to do your homework and verify the other party is not the only game in town before laying your own interests on the line

Most health insurance is not 'insurance' it's a medical payment plan. Insurance should only cover major issues/operations not the little things. Insurance is for big things that are unexpected. Enough people do the high deductables, ie. $2500-5000, maybe in time, prices start to drop. Maybe. Happy shaving. Save for stitches. :gl: +1 on negotiating. Tho I don't do enough. Hospital and cars works great.

My wife and I enjoy going to flea markets. She for books and other stuff, I for old files, razors, hones, etc.
Our daughters always get to pick something too, just to keep them happy.

For my youngest it's always stuffed animals. She literally sleeps on a pile of them. She always wants one more, at which point she'll be ecstatic about having the best, softest animal in the whole world, or completely devastated if she doesn't get it.

I always bid down on principle unless I'm already getting a steal (like a stuffed animal for 10 cents). Last time she found a large toy frog. The asking price was 2 dollars so I bid 1. Meanwhile my daughter was hugging it tightly and saying 'You're my best friend in the whole world and you are so soft and I'm never going to leave you alone and I love you (etc etc)'

The lady selling it smiled and said 'yeah I think she really wants to take it home with her'.
Negotiations did no proceed as planned. :roflmao

My internet connection was so slow that I finally called up and stated that they fix it or I change... It worked out great. They rewired the cable to the street, did this and that - all in all, 4hrs work and now I have blazing fast internet. Best part is, for the next two years I get my tv, phone, and internet for 1/3 of what I was paying before the upgrade!

Why? Because these guys are tools!! After standing me up for two appointments and them re-booking me each time, I waited politely at my door and when the dude finally did show up that third time, I asked him why I would even let him into my house.

Anyway - the district manager was called in to solve the problem and hence the 1/3 off. But the fact of the matter really is, that this all transpired because I had the time to play that week. Had it happened any other time I would have called the competitor if not after the first time they stood me up, surely the second. Waiting around the house bites!

I just got an update for this thread. Apparently time warner has decided to charge an additional fee for renting the cable modem, although they're nice enough to give the customers the option to buy and use their own equipment. I just got the notice last week, and decided to go this way (small money, but I like having my own equipment).

In the process I noticed that my promo rate has expired, so I also called them for the standard yearly negotiation. I think I ended up with the wrong people (national vs. local) because they couldn't offer me anything. I'm going to call once again next week but during day time and if I get the same answer I will cancel the service on the spot and sign up with their competitor. The difference is something like $25/month so the $300 over the year is worth spending the 15-30 min of my time.

The only way they can win with customers like me is if they start offering loyalty discounts (in effect up to now they have kept me through retention discounts), not just sign-up ones, or if they'd lower the disparity between the sign-up and the regular rate.

I negotiate just about everything lol. Almost every retail store has a manager waiting to give me 10-20% off with their little managers discount code :) I always ask "is this the best you can do?" Then they offer the discount. Most places have their prices inflated, so I figure the discount brings it closer to the reasonable cost.

Electric and Utility bills are what they are and I don't like them. :)

Many other bills are negotiable or there are other choices.

You can cut your own hair and as well all know you can stop using expensive cartridge razor blades.

I cancelled my phone land line and now use Magic Jack with the same cordless phone I was using before and now pay $30 a year rather than $35 a month.

I don't have cable TV but can watch most shows for free on my computer at Project Free TV - Watch all your favorite tv shows and movies online free

You can buy DE blades and shaving soap in bulk and cut the prices in half or more.

There are many ways to cuts costs without cutting convenience or quality at all. I find that to be fun!

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Originally Posted by JBHoren

I think this is THE crux of the matter: specifically, if you can shop other companies. Sadly, here in SoFLA so many of our "choices" are no longer choices.

Cable TV: Besides Comcast, there is no other provider; and DirecTV/Dish are non-starters (cableTV is included in condo association dues, and no external dishes are allowed).

Telephone: Having landline phone service is a "must", given the hurricane/tropical storm activity -- when the electricity goes out, cellphone's stop working (as do cordless landline phones).

Internet: Cable or telephone company (DSL), take your pick... but there aren't any discounts (and you'll be among the lucky, if your download/upload speeds are anywhere near the advertised speeds for which you're already paying.)

As for automobile insurance... well, I can't afford either a beater OR the insurance coverage (we won't even discuss gasoline or upkeep).

I guess I'll just spend more time honing... :banghead:

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Once the battery die that power the land lines you would lose that too.
they have a battery back up i think for something like 4 hours i ask my dad in the morning how
long it is. but when folks lose power everyone jumps on the phone start asking their freinds did you lose power.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

yea, so, I want that loaded new pickup at half price or I'll go somewhere else.

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I perty sure that would never ever work.