Thread: The 'Art" of Negotiation

Insurance of any kind, but particularly health insurance, is a funny thing. Any kind of insurance is a gamble, in the true sense of the word. However, to the person wanting insurance it seems like a necessity because to them the stakes are too high, especially when it comes to health. To the insurance company, it is all just a gamble, and a gamble weighted in their favour by design (so not really a gamble at all in fact).

I've trained a lot of actuarial students, some of whom even had the brains to go on to become one. To the actuary you are a data point among millions and millions of other data points. You and your actions help them categorise and quantify risk, work out expected time to "failure" (pay out), and all those fun things that go into what they like to call "premium", but I consider more the "minimum stakes of living".

And when it comes to medical insurance, the whole issue is cloudy. Why do we need medical insurance? Everyone breaks down and dies eventually - you cannot insure against that. In my mind medical insurance exists because of the exorbitant costs the medical "profession" (and I use that term lightly) have managed to foist on us over the years. Why are we not complaining about the cost of machines that go "ping"? Or the "Specialist" who turns up, cups your testicles for 30 seconds, and charges you $500 for the privilege? If medical treatment didn't cost ridiculous, unmerited, and unscrutinised prices, health insurance would be very much more affordable.

James.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

In my mind medical insurance exists because of the exorbitant costs the medical "profession" (and I use that term lightly) have managed to foist on us over the years. Why are we not complaining about the cost of machines that go "ping"? Or the "Specialist" who turns up, cups your testicles for 30 seconds, and charges you $500 for the privilege? If medical treatment didn't cost ridiculous, unmerited, and unscrutinised prices, health insurance would be very much more affordable.

James.

Well medical expenses were affordable and reasonable until the insurance game came along.
I do agree that doctors walk in a hospital room, look at the chart, sign it and bam, $$$$$.
However, when you were allowed to go to the Dr. then just pay for your service, it was reasonable.
That is a thing of the past. (except Texas I hear)

Hospital bills are negotiable as well.

Originally Posted by GG1

Well medical expenses were affordable and reasonable until the insurance game came along.
I do agree that doctors walk in a hospital room, look at the chart, sign it and bam, $$$$$.
However, when you were allowed to go to the Dr. then just pay for your service, it was reasonable.
That is a thing of the past. (except Texas I hear)

Medical Expenses are off the wall because of what the american public wants,has nothing to do with the docs or the hospitals,cases in point: The sue crazy public has created a situation wherby the last Cardiac surgeon I spent 30 yrs with is forced to pay 80K/yr for malp. ins,He has never been sued,The gadget american public demands the best care and training possible from the doc.In the cae of my surgeon,12 years at stanford was not cheap,and during that 12 years he made nothing. Gadgets,People like toys,whether they work or not,In alot of cases they do not,Take Robotic surg.
Robots,I want the Robot Do you have any Idea how many millions of bux they cost?
John Q public is the reason costs are off the wall,NOT the docs.
Yes, you can negotiate hospital bills,after the collection agency Takes every dime you have,puts a lien on your home and cars,when you and your family are living on the street with no food to eat,at that time they will write of the balance.

Originally Posted by GG1

Well medical expenses were affordable and reasonable until the insurance game came along.
I do agree that doctors walk in a hospital room, look at the chart, sign it and bam, $$$$$.
However, when you were allowed to go to the Dr. then just pay for your service, it was reasonable.
That is a thing of the past. (except Texas I hear)

No, hospital bill were affordable until big for profit corporations came along. The insurance issue is a ruse. Do you know how many people die in hospitals each year because of medical errors, mostly preventable? It sounds great to blame the insurers and public and it sounds great to limit liability but what happens when your child goes into surgery and comes out dependent on caregivers the rest of his life and the liability maximum won't even cover 2 years of care?

Going back to the OP, Glen's right, practically everything is negotiable if the consumer is willing to ask "Why?" Most do not, so companies make profits on those who do not take the time to call and ask why. Take a close look at your cell phone service bill and you'll probably find odd charges in small amounts that add up. My wife called company x for an explanation of said charges, and with no real answer or response, the company agreed to take them off our bill.

The best recent example I have involved the cable company. We decided to down-grade our cable package to basic service in an effort to save money. The service representative informed me there is $50 charge for the change in packages. I asked Why? She told me it was because it was considered a "service call" to send a technician out to our house to make the change.

I said, "Your company is charging me to down-grade my cable, why?"
She said, "Yes sir, it's a service call."'
My reponse, "If I cancel my service entirely right now, there is no charge, is that correct?"
She: "I see your point sir, I will go ahead and waive the fee.
Me: "Thank-you."

Take some time to ask "Why?" and your wallet will thank you in the end.

Update: The car insurance fell through and said that the discount that they were going to give would not fit my policy I very politely said "Oh no problem at all, since I have already shopped other companies and you guys are beat on the same coverages for cars and the toys by $208 per year so I am cancelling all 3 policies".. "Thank you for calling me back.. can you transfer me to the Off Road and Boat dept now ???? so I can cancel them too"

It works about some things and doesn't work for others. I was simply paying my internet bill for years, until one day over drinks one of my friends told me that he had just called his internet company and asked them to lower his price. I figured, hmm may be I should try this out, it does make sense.
So I called and told them, you see, right now you have a half price for a year for new subscribers. May be you can switch me to that plan because otherwise I may just cancel and sign up again, which means I'm going to waste time and have internet downtime, and you'll have to pay your technicians to disconnect and reconnect me again. Can we just skip the overhead and end up at the end point with the easiest effort. And they said 'sure, I will go ahead and make the change'. So, since then, once a year when my bill doubles, I call them and ask that they extend that pricing, or I may just start sharing my internet with my neighbors, which is a little bit less convenient for me, but a pure revenue loss for them. Has been working like a charm.

On the other hand, the electric company is in a completely different category - I can choose who I buy the energy from, but I still have to go through them for the delivery. They know that they have a monopoly and they have rigid pricing.

As far as healthcare goes, I thought that the Obamacare with all those exchanges would be more loved by the conservatives. I also think that as soon as the society is willing to go for pay before you get any treatment, even emergency, system, then the mandate should be simply dropped off. I mean, if you want freedom, you should be able to live free and reap both the benefits and suffer the consequences of it. But at present our society doesn't allow people to die if they don't carry enough cash, so mandating some minimum contribution from everybody for that privilege seems like a reasonable way to go.

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Yes it is a good point but only if you can shop around

Originally Posted by gugi

On the other hand, the electric company is in a completely different category - I can choose who I buy the energy from, but I still have to go through them for the delivery. They know that they have a monopoly and they have rigid pricing.

Yep. It helps to do your homework and verify the other party is not the only game in town before laying your own interests on the line

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

No, hospital bill were affordable until big for profit corporations came along. The insurance issue is a ruse. Do you know how many people die in hospitals each year because of medical errors, mostly preventable? It sounds great to blame the insurers and public and it sounds great to limit liability but what happens when your child goes into surgery and comes out dependent on caregivers the rest of his life and the liability maximum won't even cover 2 years of care?

I agree, before the for profit hospital came along it was all non profit hospitals, Community General, Baptist Hospital, Catholic, Jewish etc. I think it cost dad 50$ or something comparable the day I was born, I forget how many thousands it was for my last kid.