The 49th anniversary of the JFK assassination.

November 22nd, 1963 in Dallas, Texas. I was in 8th grade and it was during the time we had finished with one class and were walking down the halls to our next one. A friend and I were going along when another student came running up and excitedly told us the president had been shot. We both pushed him and punched him in his arms. What he was saying to us was unbelievable and blasphemous. He started to cry swearing it was true. He had just been in the office and heard it on the radio.

I was in class when the announcement came over the loudspeaker that the president had been shot by an assassin and had died. In the classroom some of the kids burst into tears. JFK was revered by us and it seemed impossible that it could have happened. I was watching the coverage when Jack Ruby shot Lee Harvey Oswald. My mother immediately thought there was a conspiracy and he had been murdered surrounded by the Dallas police too conveniently. I thought that was ridiculous. It took a few years for me to see it but IMHO there is no doubt it was a conspiracy. A coup d'etat in the United States of America.

As with everything else in this country the population, those who care one way or another, is split on whether it was a lone assassin or a conspiracy. I've read voluminously on the subject and there is no doubt in my mind that it was a coup. Looks like my generation will be dead and gone when and if the whole truth is ever known.

In 1976 the House Select Committee on Assassinations concluded there was at least a 2nd gunmen, if not more. That the CiA and other federal and state LEO agencies withheld information and obfuscated what info they gave. A sad day in American history.

Thanks for sharing. That's a day no one will ever forget. I was in jr. high school, seventh grade, and in a geography class taught, ironically, by a teacher who had been a secret service agent. He announced it to the class and the reactions of the students were similar to those you describe.

Later that day I had band practice; the teacher had us play "Hail to the Chief." When we finished, he told us we could keep the sheet music and that practice was over that day. It was sorrowful.

I too saw the Ruby/Oswald shooting live on T.V.

Over the years, I too have become convinced that there were more players than ever publicly disclosed.

Nevertheless, a dark day indeed.

I had an after school job in an auto body and repair shop. My boss was primering a car in the spray booth and I was repairing a front fender with lead and a torch when the news came over the radio that always played in the shop. We both stopped
what we were doing and the boss grabbed a couple of cold beers out of the fridge and we went into his office and sat around
his desk. We did not move for about 4 hours. We were frightened and my boss kept saying no good will come of this.
I cannot and never will subscribe to the lone assassin theory.

Calculus class when I found out. It was a very different time we went into after it happened.

Thanks for the reminder Jimmy. If it is any comfort, the US was not the only place badly effected by the sad events of that day. I was in Grade 5 when it was announced by the teacher and we were dismissed for the day. It certainly cast a pall over us here then.

Like you, the older I got and the more I read about the assassination I cannot believe it was the work of a lone deranged gunman. It is sad that our generation, who lived through that momentous event, will likely not live to see the entire truth eventually emerge.

Bob

In world history class,freshman in H.S. Am convinced that L.H.O had nothing to do with the killing,was not even in the building at the time.

I certainly think there was involvement by the American goverment the underworld mafia CIA, I do believe there was a conspiracy and cover up, not sure the Kennedy's going after organized crime was a reason he was killed maybe that was a smoke screen, who knows? your guess is as good as mine. Maybe is sympathy with his Irish roots and the republican cause maybe Britain had some sort of hand in his death?

jamie.

I was in class in the 9th grade at the time.

Having worked my almost entire career in government, I believe that the public believes that government has much greater control over things that happen than it actually does. While I certainly would not rule out the possibility of conspiracy, why would any competent band of conspirators, whether government or organized crime based, employ such a marginal character as Oswald and equip him with a bottom of the barrel quality rifle that was selling mail order at the time for about $ 7.00 including scope? I remember seeing the same rifles in a local department store selling for about $ 5.00 without scope.

I believe that Oswald probably acted alone and acted for reasons that could be understood only by him such as was probably the case with the person that killed John Lenon and performed the recent movie theater shootings. I visited the Texas Book Depositary during a business trip and can say with confidence that the car containing JFK was very close and moving slowly in a dead straight line away from the window. JFK was an almost impossible to miss target, even with a cheap rifle, leaving aside consideration of what physical effects actually shooting at a human rather than a paper target may have had on the shooter's capabilities.

Assuming that the assasination was the work of a lone gunman conspirator, I cannot see what motive anyone in government would have had to assasinate Oswald who was already in custody. I can easily see what a madhouse would occur around Oswald, and the possibility that a lone person angered by the assasination of a president, may get in to kill the person who was believed to do it. Something akin to a one person lynch mob.

I think that it is likely that any criminal or government professional assassination would have used better equipment, the gunman would not have been captured, and the gunman would possibly have been dissapeared never to be seen again by anyone.

I don't remember it, (Only because I had yet to be born) but I have read a lot on it. I was always fascinated by the fact that some people held such strong beliefs over L.H.O. "having" to be the shooter. One of my highschool teachers was nice enough to share his research on it with me. My teacher's notes may not be the truth, but Karl Popper wouldn't have a problem with this theory. I have tried repeatedly to debunk it and always came back to the same spot.

Anyways, unfortunate times.

There are so many things. The parade route was changed at the last to take it through Dealy Plaza, which provided an excellent ambush site with tall enough buildings to provide a triangulated crossfire.

Elements of CIA, having worked together with the mafia in the Castro assassination plots, hated JFK because he left them out to dry at the Bay of Pigs. Those agents had deep ties with men that they had trained for a couple of years. Seeing them die or be captured and imprisoned must have been excruciating. You cannot imagine how virulently anti communist the climate was at the time. By many JFK was considered a traitor.

Finally JFK's purported decision to pull our troops out of Nam upset the military industrial complex. LBJ hated the Kennedys and knew that he would not be on the ticket the following November. If he was not involved in the actual event, and I don't think he was, he and Hoover definitely were responsible for much of the coverup. Selecting, among others, Allen Dulles former chief of the CIA , who JFK had fired , to sit on the Warren Commission.

Hoover claimed Oswald was a nut who wanted to put his name in the history books yet LHO denied shooting anyone. No nitrates found on his cheek and that on his hands could have come from the book cartons he handled on the job. He was interrogated for many hours and no transcripts were written. This is ridiculous on it's face. He was found guilty without a trial.

In the Marine Corps he was a radar tech at a high security clearance installation in Japan, where the U2 spy planes were based. A place where CIA was known to be and to recruit out of the USMC. After he defected to the Soviet Union he was admitted back into the USA with no problem. It goes on and on. Then a guy with known ties to organized crime walks into the middle of the Dallas police station, where he had been the night LEO was brought in, and shoots him. When LHO said, "I am just a patsy" I believe that was the unvarnished truth.

Getting into the ballistics of the head shot as opposed to the other wounds ...... the botched autopsy .... is another kettle of fish. Too bad that The President of the Untied States brain disappeared and we cannot examine it for bullet fragments. I'm staying with the opinion held by LBJ and RFK, that it was a conspiracy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF4_...ure=plpp_video

I was only 2 years at the time, no memory of anything. I did visit the book depository in Dallas in 2008 & was able to stand close to the famous window. I don't know if there was a second shooter, we probably never will. My research of the incident is almost zero; so my opinion, as to a conspiracy, is worth zero also.

I do remember having a confident feeling that the shot from the window, on the moving, open vehicle, could have been made by any number of avid hunters in this country; even with the rifle he used.

A sad day, yes it was.

A photo of the building I took that day. The 6th floor open window.

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I remember that day well. I was in the fifth grade. The teacher from across the hall barged into our room and announced in a loud voice "The President has been shot!" Then a few minutes later, she opened the door again and said "The President is dead!" Our teacher left the room for a long time and we all just sat there looking at each other. When she came back, she just told us to go home. The other classes were being let out at the same time.

When I got home, my mother was sitting in front of the TV crying. She didn't move from that chair for the rest of the day. I don't think she stopped crying, either. That as the end of innocence for me.

I was too young to pay much attention to President Eisenhower, but Jack Kennedy got my attention because of the effect he had on my mother and on my friends' parents. I liked his Boston accent and how he mispronounced certain words like "Cuber" and "Africer" when he gave his speeches. His body language when he wasn't standing behind a podium also showed he was pretty self-conscious. This ten-year-old found that facet of Kennedy rather endearing.

There's no doubt in my mind that someday when folks no longer care, the truth about Kennedy's assassination will come out. Walter Cronkite or one of the other big names in TV news interviewed some kind of weapons specialist the day after the assassination or maybe two days after. They were at a rifle range and the guy had the same model Mauser bolt action rifle that Lee Harvey Oswald had allegedly used. He attempted to fire the same number of rounds that Oswald fired at a fixed target in the same time frame as the shots fired at President Kennedy and Governor Conally. The guy was firing from a seated position with his left elbow supported by a shelf and he was barely able to hit the target. The way he struggled with that bolt action clearly demonstrated that model of Mauser was pretty much useless for accurate rapid fire at a fixed target, let alone a moving target that was several floors below the shooter. IIRC, the guy did mention Oswald had been a marine and Marines did receive extensive firearms training, but he didn't think that Oswald could have made all those shots himself using that Mauser.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. . . .

Oswald had great training (and that's just the training that we know about, remember...), the will to shoot & his weapon of choice. I don't see a problem with him scoring at least 1 of those hits, don't get me wrong Morty, it's just a discussion among friends, but the "expert" in that case did not have LHO's training, mindset, nor did he have that exact rifle, he had a model like it. JMO

"The guy was firing from a seated position with his left elbow supported by a shelf and he was barely able to hit the target. The way he struggled with that bolt action clearly demonstrated that model of Mauser was pretty much useless for accurate rapid fire at a fixed target, let alone a moving target that was several floors below the shooter. IIRC, the guy did mention Oswald had been a marine and Marines did receive extensive firearms training, but he didn't think that Oswald could have made all those shots himself using that Mauser."

I have heard this argument made before. Although no expert, I have fired the 6.5 mm Carcano military bolt action rifle. There are many technical reasons why other military surplus bolt action rifles, such as the Mausers, were far more favored for sportarization by shooting affectionados making the Carcano very inexpensive. In its stock military form, the Carcano, like many military rifles, was equipped with rugged but relatively crude iron sites that, unlike American military rifles, could not be adjusted low enough to hit small targets at close range, but the Carcano could certainly work well enough on larger targets, especially when equipped with an aftermarket adjustable scope. The Italians are noted for building capable firearms. I do not believe that the assasination was impossible using only the Carcano. However, a semi-automatic rifle with straight back low recoil (minimal muzzle rise) would have been a much more certain choice of rifle for making multiple shots. I think that any professional assassin would have used such a weapon at close range.

There is also a theory about the driver?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge_f4OEsV9I

It's remarkable,,the driver's got "3" hands; two on the steering wheel & a third one that pops out of his chest!
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Naples Italy,,, we woke up to the MP's banging on the door giving my Pops and all the other US servicemen in the building the news that there was an alert called... We didn't see them for 3 more days...
We went to the roof of the building and watch the US fleet move out, the carrier (IIRC USS Enterprise) left her escorts behind and we could see the jets launching as she went...

For many years I thought that the conspiracy involved LHO and everyone else, but later three things changed my mind and now I believe that the only "Conspiracy" was the normal government/political CYA

However the three things

#1.) LHO attempted to shoot General Walker this is just a small piece on it..

Edwin Walker assassination attempt

In March 1963, Oswald purchased a 6.5 mm caliber Carcano rifle by mail-order, using the alias A. Hidell, as well as a .38 Smith & Wesson Model 10 revolver by the same method.

Marina Oswald testified to the Warren Commission that Lee Harvey Oswald confessed to her on the night of April 10, 1963, that he shot at General Edwin Walker with his rifle, and buried the rifle that night. The Warren Commission concluded that on April 10, 1963, Oswald attempted to kill retired U.S. Major General Edwin Walker, an outspoken anti-communist, segregationist, and member of the John Birch Society. In 1961, Walker had been relieved of his command of the 24th Division of the U.S. Army in West Germany for distributing right-wing literature to his troops. Walker's later actions in opposition to racial integration at the University of Mississippi led to his arrest on insurrection, seditious conspiracy, and other charges. He was temporarily held in a mental institution on orders from President Kennedy's brother, Attorney General Robert Kennedy, but a grand jury refused to indict him. Oswald's wife, Marina told the Warren Commission that Oswald considered Walker the leader of a "fascist organization."

The Warren Commission concluded that Oswald fired at Walker through a window, from less than 100 feet (30 m) away, as Walker sat at a desk in his home; the bullet struck the window-frame and Walker's only injury was bullet fragments to the forearm. Marina testified to the Warren Commission that Oswald told her that he had shot at Walker. (The United States House Select Committee on Assassinations stated that the "evidence strongly suggested" that Oswald carried out the shooting.)

Before the Kennedy assassination, Dallas police had no suspects in the Walker shooting,[72] but Oswald's involvement was suspected within hours of his arrest following the assassination. (A note Oswald left for Marina on the night of the attempt, telling her what to do if he did not return, was not found until early December 1963.) The Walker bullet was too damaged to run conclusive ballistics studies on it, but neutron activation analysis later showed that it was "extremely likely" that it was made by the same manufacturer and for the same rifle make as the two bullets which later struck Kennedy.

George de Mohrenschildt, friend of the Oswalds when they were in Dallas, told the Warren Commission that he strongly suspected that Oswald took a 'pot shot' at General Walker, because the following weekend, on the Saturday night before Easter Sunday, April 13, 1963, George and Jeanne De Mohrenschildt brought an Easter bunny to baby June Oswald, and when Marina was showing Jeanne their new apartment, Oswald's dug-up rifle appeared in a closet. Jeanne exclaimed to George that Lee had a rifle, and George joked to Lee, "Were you the one who took a pot-shot at General Walker?" At this point Lee and Marina both became stunned for an uncomfortable moment of silence, and then George broke the ice by laughing, and they all laughed. George de Mohrenschildt testified that this was the last time he ever saw Oswald, and that he had a strong feeling that Oswald was guilty of shooting at General Walker

#2) The shots have been duplicated by quite a few people now that the timing was corrected, and the first shot is understood to be from a loaded breech and requires no cycling of the action..
In fact one of the men that did the early shooting trials and accomplished it, worte his own book with his theories that the fatal head shot was actual an accidental mis-fire from a CAR-15 that the SS had in the follow car (an interesting read I will try and remember the name of the book)..

#3 The reason I started looking at the other side of the coin in the first place, an obscure article in G&A about Elephant Poachers in Africa talking about the ballistics involved with shooting Elephants and using FMJ rounds and medium velocity and being able to almost reload them again because of the near zero deformation on travel through the animals.. I stuck me that the loads they were talking about would explain the "Magic Bullet" so I started looking at the JFK shooting again...

There has been a lot written about the Carcano and Oswald's ability, or the lack, in marksmanship. If he was the lone gunman I wonder what it would have been like ? He only had 3 or 4 rounds. No spare rounds were found at his home, or at the scene. It seems odd to me that a man would not have more ammo in such a scenario. So he went to work that day, having read in the paper the day before that the parade route has been changed bringing the president's limo around the school book depository.

Now he is at the window , we presume, with the junk rifle and the ill fitting scope. So he had one locked and loaded and they say the first shot hit behind the limousine. So he got off 3 shots in 6 seconds. He is shooting at the president of the united states. Was he nervous ? He was never an expert riflemen in the Marine Corps. He had to pull the trigger, operate the bolt ...... and mark his target again .... through the cheap shoddy ill fitting scope. Could he have done it ?

Here is one of many conflicting websites reviewing LHO's marksmanship and tests done with the rifle he is alleged to have used by Gov agencies.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

#3 The reason I started looking at the other side of the coin in the first place, an obscure article in G&A about Elephant Poachers in Africa talking about the ballistics involved with shooting Elephants and using FMJ rounds and medium velocity and being able to almost reload them again because of the near zero deformation on travel through the animals.. I stuck me that the loads they were talking about would explain the "Magic Bullet" so I started looking at the JFK shooting again...[/B]

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Did he really attempt to assassinate Walker ? I don't think it has ever been proven. Did he shoot J.D. Tippet ? Never proven either and there is conflicting eye witness testimony. Marina Oswald can not be considered a valid witness at the time due to FBI tactics and her fear of deportation.

As to the ballistics. The full metal jacket rounds used in the Carcano are not consistent with the final shot that blew half of the president's head off. That was more like a high velocity frangible varmint round AFAIC. YMMV.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

There has been a lot written about the Carcano and Oswald's ability, or the lack, in marksmanship. If he was the lone gunman I wonder what it would have been like ? He only had 3 or 4 rounds. No spare rounds were found at his home, or at the scene. It seems odd to me that a man would not have more ammo in such a scenario. So he went to work that day, having read in the paper the day before that the parade route has been changed bringing the president's limo around the school book depository.

Now he is at the window , we presume, with the junk rifle and the ill fitting scope. So he had one locked and loaded and they say the first shot hit behind the limousine. So he got off 3 shots in 6 seconds. He is shooting at the president of the united states. Was he nervous ? He was never an expert riflemen in the Marine Corps. He had to pull the trigger, operate the bolt ...... and mark his target again .... through the cheap shoddy ill fitting scope. Could he have done it ?

Here is one of many conflicting websites reviewing LHO's marksmanship and tests done with the rifle he is alleged to have used by Gov agencies.

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I'll never say that he was the only shooter, I do believe that he was more than capable of making the shot. I read the link, and IMO it is more than a little leaning, on an "impossible shot" from the beginning of the article. You don't have to be an expert badge winner in the Corps, to be a hell of a shot. There are three levels, LHO did make "Marksman" the first level, a requirement in a time where you literally got your butt kicked & placed back into another platoon, if you did not qualify. Carlos Hathcock knew the type of training LHO went through, which makes me think that Carlos Hathcock, had his mind made up before the his test. I've read all I could find on Carlos Hathcock & watched videos on him, God rest his sole, he was out there, to say the least.

LHO was a determined nut, I think few on either side would refute & nuts don't respond to mental pressure or environmental stimuli the way the rest of us would.

Everyday experts line up to prove their case, on both sides of an issue, I see this being no different. JMO.

Perhaps LHO did fire some shots,but not at kennedy.
Remember a rnd hit a concrete curb.that was removed the next day,a rnd also went thru a stop sign in front of the limo,the sign disapeared the next day.
When LHO was in the morgue the FBI brought the rifle in and placed it in his dead hands,why??

Read about what happened to the limousine. It was effectively a crime scene. It was immediately flown to Ford where the windshield and the chrome frame of the windshield was replaced. The interior was also, if not replaced, thoroughly cleaned.

It is interesting that if something similar were ever to occur again, the likes of the Zapruder film would NEVER see the light of day. Jimmy, do you or anyone else happen to know when that film became public and why, IF, the government was covering/cleaning up evidence, how is it the film was allowed to remain in existence?

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Originally Posted by ReardenSteel

It is interesting that if something similar were ever to occur again, the likes of the Zapruder film would NEVER see the light of day. Jimmy, do you or anyone else happen to know when that film became public and why, IF, the government was covering/cleaning up evidence, how is it the film was allowed to remain in existence?

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Well, here we have another can of worms. The film belonged to Abraham Zapruder. He sold it to Time/Life for what was then a healthy sum. The government took the film to examine the content and develop it before it was returned to Zapruder and eventually to Time/Life. Life magazine ran an issue with stills in sequence from the film but it wasn't complete.

At the time of the assassination LBJ put out an executive order sealing some of the evidence for 75 years. In the USA 1963 was another planet. Even in the 1980s when photos of JFK's corpse were published it was shocking. In 1963 it wasn't about to happen. Johnson's sealing of the record was probably out of respect for the privacy and sensibilities of the family.

The Zapruder film was first aired publicly..... IIRC.... at the Garrison trial of Clay Shaw. Somehow or another a copy ended up on Geraldo Rivera's TV show and by then the cow was so far out of the barn that there was no point in closing the door I guess. In the 1990s , as a result of the Senate/House hearings confirming more than one gunman ...... hence a conspiracy .... pressure was put on the Clinton administration to release the sealed documents.

This finally led to The Assassination Record Review Board. Their task was to review all sealed documents relevant to the assassination and release them if there was no apparent threat to national security. Here is one of seven volumes by a member of that board. His books are not representative of the entire board but his conclusions and experience with the ARRB.

There seems to be evidence , according to the author, Douglas Horne, that the Zapruder film was altered when it was in CIA hands being developed. Skeptics of that assertion point out that there were a couple of other people taking home movies of the parade and it would have been dangerous for the CIA to take a chance on doctoring the Zapruder film. I didn't get into the that aspect that much. There is plenty enough to prove a conspiracy without worrying about the validity of the Z film.

Edit; I'm getting old. I just remembered that it was the renewed public interest stimulated by Oliver Stone's film JFK , showing the Z film, that pressured the Clinton administration to form the ARRB.

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Originally Posted by Hirlau

I was only 2 years at the time, no memory of anything. I did visit the Book Suppository ...

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Dude, remind me not to join your book club, especially on "hardcover month".... :dropjaw:

James.

Sorry Jimbo,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:rofl2:

Gotta go back & add this "book depository in Dallas "


......Jimmy didn't even notice it......:D

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Originally Posted by Hirlau

Gotta go back & add this "book depository in Dallas "


......Jimmy didn't even notice it......:D

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Oh I noticed it. I don't mess with people over typos . I figure as soon as I do I'll make one and what goes around tends to come around. :p

I was in class... The 2nd grade ...but I remember the announcement by my teacher Mrs McDonald. Does anybody remember their 2nd grades teachers name ???

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

Dude, remind me not to join your book club, especially on "hardcover month".... :dropjaw:

James.

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I have tears in my eyes and my gut hurts from laughing...I love this SRP !!!

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Originally Posted by nessmuck

I was in class... The 2nd grade ...but I remember the announcement by my teacher Mrs McDonald. Does anybody remember their 2nd grades teachers name ???

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Slightly off topic, I don't remember my second grade teacher's name, but I do remember my first grade teacher's name, Mrs. Spacey, she was a red-head. I married a red-head. :) Calling Dr. Freud.

1st grade,Mrs fagen.2nd Mrs yoshida,3rd Mrs butchwalt,4th mrs fagen again.
5th, mr bush,6th mrs berry,7th, mr oldwalter,woodshop/metal shop teachers/Mr duveneck.mr perry,colo school of gunsmithing,Mr gunther and Mr stroppert
Stanford univ school of perfusion technology,Dr raymond Stoffer,Dr norman shumway.
Never forgot any of those people,they all had a hand in making me the person I am today.Every one of them I learned from.I miss them all.

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Originally Posted by nessmuck

I was in class... The 2nd grade ...but I remember the announcement by my teacher Mrs McDonald. Does anybody remember their 2nd grades teachers name ???

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Of course i do 1st grade= nun, 2nd grade nun, 3rd grade nun, 4th grade nun, 5th nun, 6th grade nun................God bless me..............

How times have changed.

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While part of every candidate's retinue, security was simply not the pressing, public concern in 1960 that it would suddenly and necessarily become within a few short years. Here, seemingly alone in a crowd in Logan County, West Virginia, JFK speechifies from a kitchen chair as, mere feet away, a young boy absently plays with a jarringly realistic-looking toy gun. (Hank Walker/TIME & LIFE Pictures) #

The above information in red is a quote, not my words. From Boston.com--Hirlau