Printable View
Okay so I was a dope (no pun intended) to believe Lance Armstrong didn't use performance enhancing drugs to win the tour. Breaks my heart. I believed him all this time. 'Cause I wanted to I guess. :shrug:
Betsy Andreu, victim of many attacks from Lance Armstrong, plays Oprah and tells News what she would ask cyclist at sit-down - NY Daily News
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i-...icle-1.1210467
Lots and lots of doping going on within the sport. He was just real good at keeping it hidden. I remember when Bonds was closing in on Ruth's record. Some fans in Philly had a big sign that I loved. It said, "The Babe Did it on Hot Dogs and Beer"!!
I have the same opinion on this as I do on doping in baseball. There were way to many people in the sport doing it that it eliminates any competitive edge they had.
Taking Lance Armstrong his tour wins could not even be given to anyone because the next 15 or more riders behind had been confirmed as doping.
In baseball there hasn't been one team that has not at some point had someone on there team that was confirmed as doping.
What ever happened to eatting your spinach
Competitive edge or not...everyone else in the peloton or not...wrong is wrong.
The notion that everyone else is doing it is beyond sad. The world is full of bad people....I still choose not to be;)
Perhaps I'm not good enough to even step on the field with these guys....perhaps I am TOO good to step on the same field?
Dopers are cheaters and worse than fertilizer stuck in my shoe...because its not just a game...it is what our kids see as something to hope to become...but it's a lie.
No surprise really. Years ago when he was really in his prime his competitors used to say he did things no human could do on a bike. Now we know why. Where there's smoke there's fire.
If they all did it, and he beat them all.. Doesn't that mean he still was the best?
Or was it that his Drugs were just better?
Was he "doping", or was he doing drugs? These are two different things.
True, but the man has been disgraced and stripped of his titles, but that's not enough, let's keep dragging him through the mud until he admits it. The sad thing is someone like Barry Bonds will never admit it and will go into the Hall of Fame without an asterick next to his name and someone like Pete Rose who admitted his wrong doing will never be inducted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnus
The guy is missing his jewels. Can't we give him a pass.
In 2003, sports writer, David Walsh and Pierre Ballester wrote a book called LA Confidentiel, this book written in french and never translated to english thanks to Lance team prevented the english version from being published? This book is full of evidence about Lance paying off others to make sure he would win, circumstansial evidence of doping etc etc, and as far back as 1993 even before his first "Tour de France".
Sad to see him deny everything, and all the evidence was right there. Ever since this book was published hes been trying with lawyers to get out of this mess that he created and now he lost all his respect as a cyclist and "a good guy".
Why would anyone even ask this question?Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnus
Congratulations to him for being the best fraud?!?
The fact is we will never know how he compared to other athletes if they and he were clean...and I don't care, because he is a fraud loser, and a liar of the worst sort.
By the way, anyone that knew the real Lance will tell you what sort of guy he is. He is/was a supreme jerk and screwed over a lot of people. He hired people to help him with his image and they did.
No offense Johnus...I just think it is important to focus on what is really important here. It doesn't matter how bad everyone around you is...if you are bad you are bad. But if you point out how bad others around you are all the while pontificating about how great and clean you are (when you are not) you are the worst sort of all.
I give him no respect and couldn't care less how good he might be if he was clean. He wasn't. And therefore he is a fraud and nothing about any of his performances should be acknowledged.
I was a competitive cyclist half my life. I was never pro. I had many opportunities to dope and perhaps could have been. I feel justified in bashing him and any others that did not have the courage to respect the sport the way I did.
I looked up to Lance. I greatly admired him. I wonder if young kids looked up to him ? Is the sport of cycling as noticed by youngsters ? Anyway, I believed him all these years. I thought the French were out to get him and if they hadn't been able to prove it in 7 tours .......
Guys would argue with me but I always said that Eddy Merckx is the greatest cyclist of all time. He didn't use performance enhancing drugs and he not only won 6 tours but also all of the other big races throughout Europe.
I'm sorry to say this, but the guys used even more performance enhancing drugs back then from what I have read.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
I agree with you, The Cannibal is arguably the best rider ever, but sadly, drugs were as big a part of the game back then as it is today.
The tests wasn't all that though.. ;)
Jimmy how do you feel about Lance now?Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
Very true Tom Simpson One of the best British cyclists in the 60's died in the Tour with a belly full of amphetamines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Birnando
Tom Simpson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I didn't know that. What a bummer :gaah:..... I guess we have to go back to the days of Fausto Coppi and GIno Bartali :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Birnando
All have sinned and fell short of the glory of God. I can't really 'judge' him because I've got my own glass house to contend with. I'm disappointed I guess. :boohoo:Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin103
I think they should have the drug Olympics ....just think...how fast he 100 m would be and the 105 pound weight lifter putting 500 lbs over his head.. WOW ..You have to admit...it was fun watching Sosa,Bonds,Macguire hit those mammoth homers !!!
I can respect this and feel similarly to some point...but I am not suggesting we "judge" him in a biblical sense, but I sure as heck will make a distinction in my life between humans like myself that have made mistakes and fell short of perfection (we all have), and people that have demonstrated personally and publicly that they intentionally chose the wrong path and continually attempted to conceal their wrong doings.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
This distinction is not one of biblical judgement, it is one of trust. When someone demonstrated so brilliantly that they are not trust worthy in any capacity...I will use my power of judgement to exercise the option to not trust or respect their words and actions future and present.
Ubiquitous: YMMV
For your enjoyment (Try not to laugh and spit coffee on your monitors!):
http://<a href="http://www.metacafe....re_you_on/</a>
If they had a Drug Olympics, I da*n sure know a few of my relatives would be medal contenders. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by nessmuck
On some level this subject becomes funny...in a very sad way though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirlau
http://www.hulu.com/watch/4090
I've always thought this was the case. One doesn't get his track record in a clean way if everyone else is doing worse while on performance enhancers.
Call me cynic, but I've never believed that any of the pro top are clean. Not just Lance. All of the ones who get results.
In a way, this is inherent to the sport. I'm sure that all sports have their issues, but at least in many other sports, there is a big factor of strategy, tactics, technical skills, etc. With bicycle races, there is none of this. Any strategy is taken care of by the team leaders. All the cyclist has to do is pedal inhumanly fast for hundreds of miles. Any performance enhancers will have a direct advantage over the competition. These guys just go beyond what a normal human being is capable of, regardless of training.
I don't think he has admitted to it yet. I'm still holding out hope that he tells Oprah that she took drugs to loose weight.
Other then a time trial race, witch is a speed race short distance, but in most tours race is full of stategy, tactics skills, endurance, wit, teams tactics and stategy plays a large part of their success or failure. Its not about jumping on the bike and go as fast as you can till the finish line thats been proven many times to fail. But ultimaltely it doesnt justify to make yourself better with performance enhancers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Plus one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin103
Strategy even comes into time trials (my preferred discipline). TTs are fairly basic, but one must strategize for the course layout, wind conditions and dynamics of the day. I have been in events where guys I normally beat by MINUTES were within seconds of my time because they got an early start before the wind peaked (during my run time). Obviously humidity and precipitation can be a factor (often beyond the riders control) but knowledge is power and the big money guys can afford the gadgets to give them this data (not to mention the aerodynamics that may be developed by people with agendas...and made unavailable to certain competitors). What I hope to convey is that there are tactics on and off the race course;)
In mass start races tactics can and often do result in the fastest rider NOT winning. It is hard to understand for some, but there is FAR more skill to bike racing than pedaling hard and not crashing.
Yes, but the runners all have earpieces. It is the team leadership who knows exactly where all teams are, and what strategy should be followed. There is strategy etc involved, it is just that the cyclist himself does not have to do that anymore in the big races.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin103
Interesting read.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/14/sp...20130115&_r=1&
If he had admitted it when they asked him, there would have been no need for mud-dragging. He would have done it himself. That or he would have become another statistic, because he would have been banned/suffered extended exclusion from participating. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? He wanted to be (and was) the best in a field where it's impossible to be the best without cheating. So yes, he was the best cheater. I don't see why he has to be some sort of martyr, hero or a bad, bad person.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReardenSteel
People want/need superhumans, gladiators. We love to see people do amazing things. I personally do not mind cheaters in sport, firstly because I'm not really into sports, but secondly I see it for what it is: entertainment.
And by the way, I'm tired of public figures, such as sports people ('athletes') having to be 'role models for our kids'. I call BS, they are people too. And people are not squeeky clean Clark Kents. Don't blame the cheater if you can't explain to a child why someone cheats to be the best. And don't reflect your dissappointment on your children, either. I believe most people using that argument are just very disappointed in certain people themselves, but for some reason feel it has more validity from the perspective of an innocent child.
Although Armstrong did pose himself as an inspirator for people with cancer. When your inspirator is a pants-on-fire, I can imagine it's a bummer. Nevertheless, I don't think Lance Armstrong is necessarily a bad person. He is just full of it and I just don't think he's better than most of us, either.
The entire thing reminds me from Coriolanus' typification of the public:
"With every minute you do change a mind,
And call him noble that was now your hate,
Him vile that was your garland."
--Coriolanus act I, scene 1, 184
Confessing is good for him too, because without it he can never move on. No matter what he'd do, people would always bring his drug use back in the picture. By doing this, he can deal with it and then move on and give focus to his life again, as a triathlete or something else.
I also think it is important from a different pov. If he kept denying, there would always be a lot of people who kept suspecting the UCI and USDA from foul play because they had it in for their hero Lance. And some people would always have harbored doubts.
I think it is important for pro athletes to know at a really fundamental level that if you use illegal performancer enhancers, the USDA (or other equivalent agency) will take you down no matter how big you are and no matter how long it takes. This makes sports as a whole a better thing.
Difference with Lance is that back then, he dragged any journalist brave enough to take him on through the mud. He took hundreds of thousands in libel damages from newspapers, now it's payback time.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReardenSteel
I remember one tour where lance personally made sure another riders breakaway failed.
The rider in question had accused him of doping iirc.
Michael
What does that mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by mjsorkin
Is a "breakaway" a piece of equipment or a tactic?
Its a tactic, as in breaking away from the pack, taking off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirlau
And when one of his team memberQuote:
Originally Posted by mjsorkin
got caught doping, Lance felt so betrayed, and was shocked of their findings...........
And many Legal problems he is now facing, http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...rt-cases-await
Team riding is like a flock of geese flying in a vee formation. In a line of riders the lead rider encounters the most wind resistance. The riders behind him work a little less in keeping up because they are riding in the turbulence, drafting him and a higher pace can be kept up. After a mile or 2, the lead rider drops drops to the back of the pack and a fresher rider moves up in line to set the pace. All this is done wheel to wheel at 25mph or 30mph or more depending on terrain and weather. The leader of the team is kept in the middle of the pack to keep him fresh until the finish and to protect him during crashes.
A breakaway is a group of riders breaking away from their teams, attempting to set a higher pace than the peleton in order to pick up team or personal points by hitting additional goals along the route, points for sprints, mountains, young riders, etc. Most of the time the the breakaway fails and gets picked back up in the peleton.
Honestly, I don't believe he used performance enhancing substances. I believe that he has "admitted" to it because he is done. He has maintained for so long that he never used, and yet he gives up now ... why? Some things aren't worth fighting for, he tried to maintain his image (and failed) for a very long time. So, what changed. He is getting older, tired of the negative publicity he has had to put up with.
So in "admitting" his guilt, what has he really done? Got the press to leave him alone! He will have to answer to them for a short while, but his image couldn't be ruined anymore than it already was. In my opinion, he has done this to earn some peace. They will leave him alone in a couple of weeks.
The explanations he has given all along, regarding altitude training and his extreme physiological abnormalities, all explained his superb performances. I believe that if he was doping, he would have won much more convincingly, and looked a hell of a lot less fatigued at the end of his races... JMHO
Uhhhh......really!?
Michael
I have no idea really, but what I have read and my friends observed directly, Lance has an ego the size of his home state.
It seems preposterous to me that a guy like that would accept the world wide label "fraud" and admit that he is far less amazing than a large component of the population thought.
Opinions are like belly buttons though (shrug)
You may be right, I don't know anything about him or the sport of cycling, but many people in the media are saying that he is in for a financial battle due to his interview. People will want their money back.Quote:
Originally Posted by straightrazorheaven