A shot for the record books

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Originally Posted by BobH

Can't argue those stats. I just wonder what having concealed weapons permits has to do with sniping. .....

I don't think Canadians in general consider a career in the military a first choice option when looking for employment. .....

A different country with a different mind set....
Bob

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I believe, Cinci was just using numbers for comparison purposes. Nothing to do with CCL or anything, just numbers for perspective purposes.

As to the 2nd & 3rd point, BobH. After working with several former and current "Spec Ops" personnel, while in the US Army, as well as, my current job, "They" have a different mindset, regarding EVERYTHING. Me? I was a 'wrench' (Diesel Mechanic) in the Army. However, being attached to a Spec Ops unit, I can tell you, a lot of them think of their 'job' as a career...even if they only intend on serving for 4 yrs. Even in my current LEO job, I have done a lot of training (even being an instructor and commander of different 'Teams" over the years), from Tact. Team, SORT (Spec Ops Response Team) to certified Sniper and sniper trainer (which,not 'bragging, by ANY means! But, YES, I am very proud to say!!!) HOWEVER, the complete mind set of someone who is 150% dedicated to Spec Ops is something I never will be able to understand!! I kind of look at it like a Marine! A Jar-Head feels something that NO OTHER service-man feels...let alone, a civilian. I can't understand it and never will.

I understand what you were thinking BobH...But, "THEY" don't think like the rest of the population......regardless of their country. They're just 'different.' And I am thankful for personnel that are "Different."

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Originally Posted by AcesandEights

I understand what you were thinking BobH...But, "THEY" don't think like the rest of the population......regardless of their country. They're just 'different.' And I am thankful for personnel that are "Different."

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Yes, snipers are of a different mind set from the rest of the military and most of the general population.

I had the good fortune to participate in a weeks long shooting match at the Connaught Ranges years ago. They were attended by the British Army Rifle Team, the Australian Army Rifle Team and our own military. There may have been others too plus us civilians representing Provincial Teams from the DCRA. I was able to shoot with and talk to a couple of our snipers. Nice guys but as you say different even from my view point as a Civilian/Naval Reservist. I never said I wasn't thankful we can produce these individuals. Quite the opposite considering the mindset of most Canadians regarding things military.

After my original post I got interested in seeing what the score was with Canadian sniping in WWI. Seems they weren't too shabby at the trade back then either. There was a huge contribution by Aboriginal Canadians to that effort. Never too old to learn something.

Aboriginal soldiers were among Canada’s top First World War snipers | World War I

Bob

Yeah, I've known a few of those guys over the years. In fact, one of my current neighbors was a Ranger infantry grunt who saw lots of action in Iraq and Afghanistan. He even took an RPG round in the back of the head, and has the scars to prove it. I assume it didn't explode, or he wouldn't still have a head!

Anyway, they have to be "different" i.e. beyond hardcore, dedicated, committed, etc., just to even get into training for those groups, much less survive it and then keep motivated in the extreme operations tempo that our current military engagements demand of special forces groups. It seems that most of our operations now utilize all sorts of small spec ops teams instead of the traditional mass boots on the ground occupations. I admire their extreme dedication and expertise-I can only imagine what multiple long-term deployments does to them and their families.

Nice win for Canada....twice in a row.

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Originally Posted by BobH

I don't think Canadians in general consider a career in the military a first choice option when looking for employment. That makes it even harder to get suitable personnel recruited on a voluntary basis.

A different country with a different mind set that on a few occasions can punch above weight given all the conditions that go against our military being able to that.

Bob

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Studying Military history is one of my hobbies.

Make no mistake - Canadian soldiers have a long history military braveness and badassery.

At that distance there is a fair amount of luck involved. But that's just the last percent. The first 99% is being really, really good. And having some phenomenally precise gun parts.

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Originally Posted by Pete123

Studying Military history is one of my hobbies.

Make no mistake - Canadian soldiers have a long history military braveness and badassery.

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I always had that impression also but in general we, as a nation, do not seem to venerate that tradition overtly. I think that is a good attribute to a point but little bragging every now and then does not hurt any. ;)

Bob

Saw footage years ago of Canadian snipers in action, not for the squeamish.
.50 cal no good for deer hunting, unless you like mince...

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Originally Posted by BobH

I always had that impression also but in general we, as a nation, do not seem to venerate that tradition overtly. I think that is a good attribute to a point but little bragging every now and then does not hurt any. ;)

Bob

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Bob, you were being humble and I was bragging on Canada. While I quoted you, I was really addressing widely held beliefs in the US that we are always the ones who are best and save the day militarily. I'm a patriotic American and love our soldiers. I also value truth.

Consider WW2. The majority of Americans and many around the world think we won WW2. There is no doubt that our soldiers fought with bravery and achieved great things. Our bomber crews were especially brave as their chance of surviving a tour was low.

Having said that, the truth, at a high level, is that the US paid for the war and the Soviets fought it. While it takes everyone, I consider the Soviets to have won the war if you had to pick one country. Neither Japan nor Italy were a truly significant threat. Germany was something else. They were Europe's manufacturing center and had been improving their military technology for a long time. As well, their troops had trained like there is no tomorrow.

The Soviets killed 80% of the Nazi dead. The Soviets eliminated Germany's ability to make war. Everyone in the US thinks D-Day was awesome, and it was. It was dwarfed by Soviet Operation Bagration, which no one has heard of.

The battle for Moscow laid a hurting on the Nazi's. The battle for Stalingrad assured that Germany wouldn't have the men needed to win. The battle for Kursk assured that they wouldn't have the equipment. After Kursk, it was all over but the crying.

Again, I'm very patriotic and love America. I also think truth matters and know from study that many other countries have done great things and want them to get credit as well.

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Originally Posted by Pete123

Bob, you were being humble and I was bragging on Canada. While I quoted you, I was really addressing widely held beliefs in the US that we are always the ones who are best and save the day militarily. I'm a patriotic American and love our soldiers. I also value truth.

Consider WW2. The majority of Americans and many around the world think we won WW2. There is no doubt that our soldiers fought with bravery and achieved great things. Our bomber crews were especially brave as their chance of surviving a tour was low.

Having said that, the truth, at a high level, is that the US paid for the war and the Soviets fought it. While it takes everyone, I consider the Soviets to have won the war if you had to pick one country. Neither Japan nor Italy were a truly significant threat. Germany was something else. They were Europe's manufacturing center and had been improving their military technology for a long time. As well, their troops had trained like there is no tomorrow.

The Soviets killed 80% of the Nazi dead. The Soviets eliminated Germany's ability to make war. Everyone in the US thinks D-Day was awesome, and it was. It was dwarfed by Soviet Operation Bagration, which no one has heard of.

The battle for Moscow laid a hurting on the Nazi's. The battle for Stalingrad assured that Germany wouldn't have the men needed to win. The battle for Kursk assured that they wouldn't have the equipment. After Kursk, it was all over but the crying.

Again, I'm very patriotic and love America. I also think truth matters and know from study that many other countries have done great things and want them to get credit as well.

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Yes, absolutely, The Great Patriotic War as the Russians called it.

Two thirds of the German Army was in Russia, we got the last third remaining in Europe.

Mind you, throw in the Italians, the Japanese, the Vichy French and other Axis Allies, plus essentially a global theatre of war rather than the USSR, and the Allies certainly had a bucketful of shite to deal with as well.... :-)

But yes, 21 million Russians died in WW2....and the Kursk salient, largest tank battle ever I believe until the Battle of the Golan Heights with the Israelis being outnumbered what, 10k to 1 (:-)), and they still dominated the field.