Recycled steel

[jeness]

Hi all!

I am working on my forging equipment, I only need a forge and I will have everything in place. So I am looking for some steel I can forge, and I thought it would be a good idea to buy some steel from the scrapyard in the beginning. I really like the idea of recycling old materials, it would be a shame to buy it new, and it is also hard to find good steel around.

I already bought some ball bearings and old files, I read a lot of these, and they should make good razors as far as I can tell

Are there any other recycleable metals I should look for at the scrapyard? Or should I stay with these? Are car leaf springs any good for razors, or the carbon content in these are too low? With what steel should I start forging in the beginning, which one is easier to work with?

Thanks for all the help, I appreciate it very much!

[epd]

Years ago I apprenticed as a millwright, the old fillipino man I was learning from always told stories of making razors from old leaf springs to sell to local barbers....

[Bruno]

I know leaf springs are commonly used to make knives. So they're probably good enough.
Same for old files and ball bearings. Another obvious source are old meatcleavers or other kind of cutting implement that holds a good edge.

EDIT: Speaking about cutting implements: if you have unkown steel, make sure it can be hardened (i.e. it is a monosteel).
I got a big paper cutting knife for free, and I cut a piece off of it and forged it into a kitchen knife, at which point I discovered that only the edge of the original knife was blade steel, and the body was just mild construction steel.

A quick test is to heat a thin stick of the material to non-magnetic and then quench in oil.
Clamp it in a vise and try to break it. If it breaks, you have good oil hardening steel. If it bends, repeat the procedure but quench in water. If it breaks, you have good water hardening steel. If it still bends, your steel is mild construction steel that can be used for handles, bodies, etc. Anything that doesn't need to be hardened.

I learned the above from Mike Blue, and it really helped me make sense of the steel I was working with.
I could finally prove that my steel was not a monosteel when I did a breaktest with a piece that ran alongside the edge. The body bent, but the edge material cracked every half centimeter or so. So it was clearly 2 types of steel welded together.

[Mike Blue]

There are a few factors that affect your choices. Not all scrap materials fit into the old lists that used to highlight that spring steels were all 5160. The auto companies used whatever steel that made a good spring and not necessary do all those steels make a good blade. Spring steels are notorious for cracking too, so keep an eye out for that.

Old files would be better than average steels, but in recent years some companies are making them of case hardened mild steel.

Another group of steels that would be okay are the agricultural tool materials like disks, cultivator points, the cutting tool that digs into the dirt.

In any of these examples, Bruno's method of testing the steel first is important. Another helpful procedure is spark testing, THE SPARK TEST OF STEELS | Steel Data Search Engine

You won't know about any steel until you try these tests, then make a razor and see if it hones up to cut well. There is always a lot of time and tools involved in working up an unknown and you still risk disappointment. It's a sometimes painful part of the learning curve for recycling steels. Keep good notes. As long as it remains fun, it'll be cool.

[randydance062449]

In the past I have used a number of old files to try making razors from. Much to my dismay I overlooked one critical thing....the thickness of the file. As you already know the thickness determines the width of the blade, thickness x (3.5 to 4.0) = max width of blade. That will give you the proper angle on the bevel. A number of the razors I ground out ended up much to thin along the spine to be of any practical value. But... it was good grinding practice!

Look for the old files that are more than 1/4" thick. You will have to grind off the teeth of the file and that ends up being more than you think. The reality is most files are only suited for knife making because they end up being to thin to make a 7/8 razor which requires a 1/4" thick spine ( 1/4" x 3.5 = 7/8").

I did obtain some leaf springs from a 1938 Ford that have a high carbon content but were to thin for use as razors. So check the thickness of the leaf springs carefully before you buy and remember they will have to be annealed first before grinding and cut or forged to rough shape first.

[jeness]

Everything I have bought, both the ball bearings and the files are thicker than 8-10mm, so I hope that will be enough

Thanks for all the advice, seems like I will stay with the old files in the beginning. They are all "vintage", so they should have been made from good quality steel, some are more than 30-40 years old. The ball bearings I have are made from 52100, but I have heard that this steel is not the easiest to work with, so I will leave that for times when I will have some basic experience in forging. I will make my first razors from O-1 with stock removal, just to be sure that I can make usable razors that way

[ScottGoodman]

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but do you think that "NEW" car springs are being made out of the good steel like 5160? I ask this because we haul a LOT of new flat stock to a customer that makes auto springs. If we were to derail a car load of it, I may be able to snag a piece of it.... Secondly I have considered contacting them for "scraps".

[Bruno]

I'd ask them for scraps if I were you. They may have quite a bit of them, and that way they won't mind you taking them.
I obviously don't know what they maken them from, but a heat treat test like I described above would quickly show you whether the steel is good or not, even though it might not exactly be 5160.

[pixelfixed]

next time your hunting around the scrap yard,ask if they have some patriot missle caseings,is good stuff

[Bruno]

next time your hunting around the scrap yard,ask if they have some patriot missle caseings,is good stuff

Wouldn't those be made from aluminium or titanium?
I don't know much about rockets, but weight is an extremely important consideration when dealing with fuel efficiency and range. Solid steel casings of a respectable thickness would be pretty heavy.

That said, submarine hulls and tank are supposedly made from high quality steel. Though it might be that these are more designed for toughness than hardness of course. And heat treating will be a challenge if they are complex alloys