Take a look

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Originally Posted by xman

3) Then we need to do research to find out what razors may have been offered to customers who may not necessarily have been passengers (poor souls).
4) The razor was made in Solingen Germany and could have been imported by a company in Brighton like many late 19th and early 20th century American razor companies.
Sure looks good enough to me.

X

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I only did online research but I DID look for any evidence of razors and items having anything to do with the Titanic or White Star shipping company. All I found were a few pdf files with zero razors listed, some pictures of various items, and a few web pages selling trinkets that had to do with the movie.

I did see ONE picture of a straight razor alledged to be associated with "white star", it didn't say anything about the titanic and the scales appeared to be a tan. celluloid or bakalite material.

You could buy it and take it to the PBS roadshow on antiques and let us know what they say :D.

I agree 100% that better research would have to be done. Tell me how that's possible on an online auction with bids in and a count down to auctions closing.

Besides, the lister was VERY careful "do no wrong" according to ebay policies. He points out that there are fakes on the market and he "believes" that it could be or likely is authentic because of certain things, specifically the paper on the lip of the box. He questions/doubts why a counterfeiter would go through all that trouble. Yet look at the price of the auction already. Why NOT go through all that trouble if you can get 300 pounds or possibly more on an item that might otherwise return 5 to 30 pounds? I'd say the improved return ratio makes it WELL worth the effort.

I'm not claiming the lister is the one responsible but I do find it interesting that he is intentionally vague about where the item was found, "a house cleaning" Ok, how about a little more detail? what town in England was this found in? did it belong to a dad, a grand-dad, uncle, cousin, empty house bought and being cleaned? Give some generic history of where it was held in store.

Bottom line though, the testing that would have to be done to authenticate it can't be done on this auction. However, if the lister is that confident that it's authentic, then he could well have it tested and the thing would instantly be potentially worth thousands of pounds in collectors value alone.

I don't know how things work in Britian but in the U.S. there are quite a few universities that JUMP at the chance to test items of this nature to verify it's authenticity and will do it for free or only charge a nominal fee compared to private companies. If it were me and I was that confident I'd have it tested, THEN announce it to the news, THEN after the tests come back as it's likely authentic I'd announce in a wishy washy way that I MIGHT offer it on ebay. Of course I'd keep it in a deposit box while all this free global advertisement was happening. Hey, a few weeks of advertising and I might an auction going in mailed in and called in offers way before I had to offer it in ebay. I may get some collector offer me way more than I'd get with having to pay ebay percentages and listing fees.

Hey, if you think it's authentic but may have some doubts then wait until the results from the research and testing come back and if it's authentic then bust out the hype.

I just got a response back from the lister.

I asked for more pictures with close ups of the blade and sticker, he declined.

I asked for more information on the history and if he would pass my email off to the person who did the house cleaning so I could ask about the history of the razor. He declined, saying "found in a loft" was only hearsay and he had zero information on the history of the razor, etc.

I find it a bit strange that he couldn't (wouldn't?) tell me how it came into his possession.

Guys,

All the conspiracy theories are really nice, unless you know how much work would go into creating such a fake.

You would have to be a really talented idiot to spend all that time making a fake that would only fetch a couple of thousand dollars on a blue mooned night.

If anyone is that good they are better off creating fakes in antique markets that would fetch top dollar instead of the bargain basement straight razor market. You may find $600 a chunk of change but other antique markets would consider this petty cash.

Ever wonder if that quarter you got as change is real or fake? I doubt it. I never heard of anyone setting up a counterfit quarter or penny operation and don't expect to.

Same with this razor. I seriously doubt that this is a made to order fake razor simply because the return does not warrant the effort.

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Originally Posted by vladsch

You would have to be a really talented idiot to spend all that time making a fake that would only fetch a couple of thousand dollars on a blue mooned night.

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Occam's Razor. Now that one's sharp!

X

I would have to agree with Vlad on this. It would be too much work to fake something he might only get a few hundred for.

I would add that unless you are ready to spend the money on this razor and the only thing that stops you is "questions of authenticity" disectiong this razor's authenticity it is nothing but self justification of why you don't bid on this rare piece of history.

We might as well discuss the fact that we don't buy Rolls Royce cars because we find their demands of owners to keep their cars clean an invasion of our freedoms.

To assume to one would go to the trouble of creating a fake that would only go for a few hundred dollars is foolhardy reasoning. I can tell you that there are people making fake Seiko Watches that sell for less than $100.00 when the real thing sells for maybe $200 at the most, so go figure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vladsch

I would add that unless you are ready to spend the money on this razor and the only thing that stops you is "questions of authenticity" disectiong this razor's authenticity it is nothing but self justification of why you don't bid on this rare piece of history.

We might as well discuss the fact that we don't buy Rolls Royce cars because we find their demands of owners to keep their cars clean an invasion of our freedoms.

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Wow, looks like I've really pissed you off if you had to post twice on it. I'm truly sorry. But you're comments on why someone would go through the trouble to fake things just to get a few hundred dollars are far off base and VERY naive. We live in a day and age where people are killing other people (contract hits) for $500.00 or less. Granted many of those get caught and snitch out the "buyer" but that's the world we live in.

People are embezzling others (risking 10, 20, 50 years or more in jail) for just hundreds of dollars and getting away with it.

What WOULD it take to fake it? a sticker yellowed with some very basic aging techniques an old typewriter or type set stamp kit, a little jeweler's paint and a bit of patience. a days work or less, and a fling on ebay, and I get 300 to 1000 pounds out of it which equates to between about 550 to 1800 u.s. dollars or so.

Your rolls royce comment is totally unrelated and nothing more than a rude slam. You don't like my opinion? fine. Find a nice way to say it.

Personally I think the things fake. I've a right to post it. If you want to respectfully disagree with me then fine. Don't go on a rant ridiculing conspiracy theories.

Personally I think the lister is a broker and may have gotten taken and is trying to recoup on ebay.

Again, that's just my opinion.

Obviously it's too controversial for some of you to handle like true gentlemen.

FUD, I was not trying to slam you. I was trying to poke fun. I guess it got lost in the translation. My apologies if it has come out sounding rough. What I was trying to point out is that most of us, myself included, don't have the money to buy it anyway so what do we care if it is fake or real?

On the other hand if you think that it could be made according to your simplistic recipe in a day then you haven't tried it yourself. I would bet that you couldn't do it if you tried. Stating as a matter of fact on how easy it is to do without having done it is an empty argument. Try it first and if you can do it in a week I'll tip my hat to your talents and your abilities. It would take many attempts, much practice and quite a bit of research.

Killing someone for a few hundred bucks is less effort than faking an antique and does not take much intelligence, talent or dexterity. So that argument does not hold water.

It does not mean that someone could not have faked it for other reasons other than financial but it is not likely. There are plenty of people who would find $500 more than attractive enough to create a fake. Fortunately for us, they don't have what it takes to create one. Those that can create a fake, earn more by applying their talents to legal ventures.

As far as faking $200 Seiko is concerned to sell for $100 this is quite different. $100 Seiko has volume of sales. It is not a one of but a mass production operation. So there is a financial justification for it because manufacturing costs of a fake Seiko are much, much lower than the $100 price. There is plenty of money to be made.

In this case you could not sell a second one of these without attracting a lot of attention.

The scales look in perfect condition, the blade well and truly showing hone wear.

As a fountain pen collector I can say the first celluliod pens were made approx 1928, before that it was ebonite or vulcanite, vulcanised rubber. The scales look like celluloid.

I've also noted that early razors had soft metal or lead wedges, certainly not plastic, what wedge does this one have ?.

For first class the word Titanic in crappy bold font would not be correct and certainly does not match the rest of the razor.

Wasn't it PT Barnum that said "there's one born every minute".

Gary