In need of information on lapping and honing for a first timer

I have been searching threads of forums all night and can't find the advice/answers to my questions.

First and most important is my recent purchase of a Naniwa Chosera 1000 k, a Norton combination 4k/8k, a Naniwa superstone 220 grit, a Naniwa Superstone 12k, and a Norton flattening stone to maintain them all.

After watching a Lynn Abrams video on how to lap my stones, specifically the Norton 4k/8k. the advice he gives is that on average a brand new Norton 4k/8k will need to be lapped down an eighth of an inch in order to get past the initial graininess to achieve a quality hone.

1. My question is will the same distance of lapping be necessary to administer to all my listed above stones?

I purchased these honing stones in order to repair my expensive hart razor that I unfortunately chipped on the sink while carelessly rinsing the razor after a shave.

2. Are the combination of stones I posses able to repair my mistake effectively? or did I make a mistake on my recent honing investment?

3. How do I know if I ruined my Chosera 1000 k? During my pitiful attempts to restore my razor and set the bevel correctly, my Chosera was constantly exposed to water for a period of time of at least 5 hours. I followed the directions by letting it air dry and to not speed up the process with a towel or blow dryer. However the stone still appears to be wet on one side and now has a dark spotty coloration.

I've been practicing my honing skills on a cheap very dull vintage razor I obtained from a thrift store but as of yet see little to no positive progression at even achieving even a chef knives sharpness. Until I am confident in my ability to properly hone I don't plan on attempting a repair on my hart razor.

I'm very discouraged and am in need of quality advice on honing. I'm eager to research and learn to perfect this skill in order to rationalize my recent honing stone purchase. Please advise me. Presently I feel I've made a mistake investing in a set of honing stones rather than hiring someone to just fix my stupid avoidable mistake.
Educate me and help me to realize I made the right investment.

Thank you

I guess my first question would be how bad is the chip? Can you show pics? A lot of times you can hone out small chips on a 1k with no problems. I have a Heljestrand MK31 that had a small chip in the edge, and I was able to hone past it by doing several sets of circle strokes with pressure on the 1k.

The setup you chose is definitely a good one. You should have everything you need to get you razor to shave well. I'm just trying to keep you from having to drop down to that 220 if you don't have to...That's awful harsh for a razor IMHO....Hopefully you don't need to go down that low...

1. The Norton 4k needs to be lapped down more than other stones to reach the quality grit level to which Lynn is probably referring. The 4k does seem to improve with more lapping; however, a full 1/8 " is more than I needed to go. The other stones will not require this much lapping.

2. You have the right stones to do almost anything. You may want to post a picture of the chip, but it is likely that you can repair it. You will need to stay on the low grit 1000 stone until the chip is gone. If the chip is very deep then you can save some time by pulling the edge along the SIDE of your 1000 stone until you can barely feel the knick by running your fingernail along the edge. Then go to the 1000 to set your bevel (it should cut hair on your arm before moving on) and finish the honing progressively or with Lynn's pyramid steps. Most newbies move on too quickly before the bevel is set.

3. Don't worry about the discoloration. You need to lap this side until it is gone. The stone should be fine.

Hang in there. Keep practicing. This is a challenging hobby, but it can be a very rewarding journey.

1. Only the norton will need the 1/8 lapping. All the other is just till flat.

2. The stones are good but wood get a dmt d8c for lapping as those lapping stones aren't great and you need to lap it to start out with.

3. The discolouration could be swarf. Clean the stone under running water using your hand like a lap. If it comes out good if not lap it a little but really shoudln't cause an issue

Honing can take a bit to learn. Watch the vids by Gssixgun and Lynn Abrams on youtube. Good luck

I agree with everything that's been said so far. Honing a razor is one thing, repairing a chip is another. It takes a bit of skill and practice. I'd send the Hart out to be repaired. If you've never done it, I wouldn't start the learning process on a $300.00 razor. When I repair a chip, I lift the spine off the stone, and hone at an angle, almost like you'd sharpen a knife. It's quick and effective. In any case, You have the right tools for the job. I'd practice on a inexpensive razor first.

There are 3 different Norton 4k's out there floating around


Made in USA
Made in Mexico
Made in Italy

There were some that came out when production shifted from the US to Mexico that required the 1/8 inch lapping or so to get to a smooth even feeling surface ,

Most of those issues have since been fixed, Lap until the stone is flat and the feel is even so that there are no rough spots left, how long that takes will differ with each Hone

I seriously doubt you did damage to the Chosera, set it on a towel to dry slowly when yer done honing, there are rare days that mine isn't wet for hours...

The surface of my Chosera 600 has several spots and different colors, and generally looks bad.
It works great.

thank you for the tips I measured the Norton 4k/8k I have lapped it nearly a 16th of an inch so far, still has a little uneven graininess so I will continue to lap that again. Oh and the Norton was made in Mexico if that's significant.

the advice about my Chosera is a relief :-)

I'm a very scientific individual and am curious if types of water used plays a role in honing as well as temperature. I live in a home with hard water. Would soft water make a difference also how about distilled?

I like Lynn's videos but was unaware of Gssixgun thank you for the new resource eddy.

My digital camera doesn't have great resolution to show the chip on the hart but here are the photos.
The chip or indentation occurred at the razors toe. I have not attempted a repair on the hart and probably wont for sometime until I feel I'm ready and confident.

the fine established bevel is non existent on my cheap half hollow Damascus razor. Will the bevel be visible after the chosera 1k stage or is that something that shows up after finishing on a polish stone like my 12k?

currently I am practicing honing on the Damascus steel razor that I purchased in a package deal.
its has become dull since I first learned to shave with it and in my opinion even duller after my marathon of honing attempts last night. It doesn't want to travel or even come close to cutting my thumb pad. believe me I've applied hard pressure and kind of wanted it to cut. I just miss shaving so much.

one more thing I have read that for beginners honing slowly works best and that on the chosera that cuts well and fast it should be effective. is this info true? how much pressure should I apply I am the most confused about how much pressure to apply.

I hope the pictures are clear enough to attain a good assessment on my problems with both the chipped/warped hart and the dull Damascus.

I apologize for the disorganization and multiple questions however I am extremely eager to produce a successful bevel and hone. its all I think about.
Attachment 141681Attachment 141682Attachment 141683Attachment 141684

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by scrambowlz

thank you for the tips I measured the Norton 4k/8k I have lapped it nearly a 16th of an inch so far, still has a little uneven graininess so I will continue to lap that again. Oh and the Norton was made in Mexico if that's significant.

---

Yes actually it is and thanks for posting it

The ones that are made in Mexico were the worst ones to get lapped in at least they have been in the past.. Please let us know how it goes

I'm not sure how you define 'bevel' as I can see a bevel forming on the damascus. What's happening at the edge may be a different matter tho as we have no idea what kind of heat treatment it had if any. It's bevel is pretty large & heavier at the heel but as you are honing it with tape you may simply be following the shape of the spine. Usually tape on a razor produces a smaller bevel so I think the geometry on this blade is wrong or you have been bearing down hard on it.

Pressure is a variable thing & I find it difficult to quantify because different parts of the razor will have different pressure on them. If you want to hone a microchip from the edge of a blade, the lightest pressure will put that edge in contact with the stone. If you are restoring an edge that needs a lot of steel removed some pressure will help as your goal is to thin out the steel behind the original bevel as you create a new one. Just remember that too much pressure will flex your edge away from the hone or in the case of a wedge maybe chip the edge. The stone will do the job for you.

I would say it would not take terribly long to correct that Hart on the 1k but they are pretty hard steel. You can hone it with a taped spine as I believe they come that way from the factory. Make sure your stroke contacts the whole edge as they have a slight smile.
I think the same advise given for stopping applies for honing. Just enough pressure to keep contact with edge & spine but when honing a little torque into the edge will save spine wear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gssixgun

Yes actually it is and thanks for posting it

The ones that are made in Mexico were the worst ones to get lapped in at least they have been in the past.. Please let us know how it goes

---

correction the 4k grit is from Italy and 8k grit is from the USA

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by scrambowlz

correction the 4k grit is from Italy and 8k grit is from the USA

---

Thanks for the correction, again let us know how it goes

I'd say kitchen knives & disposable blades are a far cry from honing a straight razor as the straight has a built in honing aid called the "spine".
You'd be better off practicing on a straight razor to learn how to hone a straight razor. eBay cheapies would be one way to go but vintage not supposed damascus.

making some progress on the chosera 1000 grit my brother is slowly lapping the 4k atm. would rather go slow and get it right than to over lap and loose some stone. bevel is developing slowly but surely thanks for the tips everyone

First, you have a great set of hones. You should be able to sharpen any razor just with those.

Dump the Norton flattening stone, though. Get a DMT 325 for that. You may never need to make another hone purchase.

Also, forget the "cheap Damascus" razor. You will never get a good edge on that. These are worthless, usually made in Pakistan, and a complete waste of time.

You should be able to correct the chip with the Chosera 1K quickly. I would round the end of the toe which will make it even quicker -- others would argue. I personally would round the end of any square point, but that's just me. Then move through your 4-8-12K progression and you should be golden.

Good luck, and welcome to the fraternity!

+1 for getting a DMT lapping plate - or if you have the cash a Shapton glass diamond lapping plate - these will save you hours in lapping and do a better job.

Keep at it - watch all the videos you can and buy a cheap vintage razor off eBay to learn on first. It took me a good six weeks to learn how to hone effectively and I'm still no pro but I can put a shave ready edge on any of my razors...

Good luck!

John

I am by no means an experienced razor honer, but I am a very experienced woodworking tool honer and one thing I have experienced myself, and has always been actively talked about amongst the woodworking community, is the Norton Flattening stone not being truly flat and having some real quality control issues. I ended up getting rid of it and now use a DMT diamond plate to keep my sharpening stones flat and it definitely works better (for me at least).

This may have little impact on your use, but flat stones are a must (IMHO) to truly achieve sharp, and a flat reference is needed to keep your stones truly flat as well...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ocelot27

+1 for getting a DMT lapping plate - or if you have the cash a Shapton glass diamond lapping plate - these will save you hours in lapping and do a better job.

Keep at it - watch all the videos you can and buy a cheap vintage razor off eBay to learn on first. It took me a good six weeks to learn how to hone effectively and I'm still no pro but I can put a shave ready edge on any of my razors...

Good luck!

John

---

is there a certain dmt lapping plate that I should purchase?

I have looked online and there are so many to choose from and I am not sure which would be best.