Thread: The usual hone questions from a rookie honer

My dad is an avid wood worker and uses chisels and planes all the time. He used to use traditional whetstones to sharpen up his chisels and the like but recently switched over to some machine to sharpen them now. He had no need for his old whetstones so gave them to me to sharpen my razors with! Pretty sweet gift I know

Anyways, the stones he gave me are a Samurai? 800/4000 combo (i think that's what it is at least) and a norton 8K. The stones are in good shape but he said he's never lapped them so I know I need to get a lapping plate to clean them up and then eventually a finisher so here's my questions:

Would the consensus be that the DMT 8" 325 would be my best bet for a lapping plate? Are there any others out there you all would recommend?

And as for finishers, would you guys say natural or synthetic? I'm leaning towards a thuringian or the Naniwa 12k or maybe even a coticule haha so many options! Your thoughts? Also going to get some CrOx paste for my strop and the one question I have is do you put it on the back or the leather or back of the fabric?

I know thats a lot of questions and most have probably been asked before but I really appreciate any feedback I can get from you guys cuz you're all the best!

Sam

Your father has a nice progression of stones, although I don't know this samurai brand, they re pretty much exactly what you need.
For lapping, some sandpaper onn a flat surface will do the trick, some sheets of 200 and a couple of 500 grit for a smoother surface of the fine stones. If you have 20 or more razors, a diamond plate would be useful, but for a smaller number, sandpaper works just fine.
For finisher, your norton and CrOx is all you need. No need for Thuringians and 12k naniwas if you use some CrOx. The finer stones are if you want an edge that can shave nicely without any stropping on pastes. Where you use it is your choice; for me, I usually prefer the back side of my strops.
You can buy better and finer stones, but, experience is worth more than the price of the stones. Learn with what you have, and, you can buy better stones after you know what the ones you have can do.

The 325 DMT is probably the most often used plate for lapping although it would not be the best choice for lapping a stone that is badly dished. You might want the extra coarse (220) in that case.

The consensus seems to be that a new honer is better off learning on synthetics simply because they are more consistent and therefore predictable. I'd suggest the 12K Nani instead of the thuri to start with. Just remember that the real work, the "sharp", has to be there before moving on to your 8 or 12K finisher.

Most people will crox the fabric rather than the leather but that is a personal choice. Lynn has a nice video that gives the basics:





rs,
Tack

Vasilis - I can't find anything on the samurai stones either I'll post a pic when I get home see if anyone else knows anything about them. when using the sandpaper would it be better to soak the stones and use the sandpaper wet or keep the stones dry and use the sand paper dry? And as of right now I'm not planning on getting a finisher for a while until I am more than skilled enough on the stones I have. I just plan on using the CrOx after honing to smooth it out a little.

Thanks for the video link tack! I've watched so many of those I feel like now and feel I have a good grasp on what to do when I start. Fingers crossed cuz one of my razors is starting to pull really bad now that it hurts a little haha

Originally Posted by chapman

Vasilis - I can't find anything on the samurai stones either I'll post a pic when I get home see if anyone else knows anything about them. when using the sandpaper would it be better to soak the stones and use the sandpaper wet or keep the stones dry and use the sand paper dry? And as of right now I'm not planning on getting a finisher for a while until I am more than skilled enough on the stones I have. I just plan on using the CrOx after honing to smooth it out a little.

Thanks for the video link tack! I've watched so many of those I feel like now and feel I have a good grasp on what to do when I start. Fingers crossed cuz one of my razors is starting to pull really bad now that it hurts a little haha

There is not a big difference if you use the sandpaper with the stones soaked wet or dry. I usually prefer the stones to be dry, because there are some naturals that can't get flat when wet. And it became a habit, plus it's less messy. Make sure to wash and rub them with your hand, to remove any loose particles, after.

Originally Posted by Vasilis

There is not a big difference if you use the sandpaper with the stones soaked wet or dry. I usually prefer the stones to be dry, because there are some naturals that can't get flat when wet. And it became a habit, plus it's less messy. Make sure to wash and rub them with your hand, to remove any loose particles, after.

How so you ensure the lapping ends up being level? Do you just put the sandpaper on the table and scrub away or do you mark the top of the stone with a pencil?

An easy way to see if the stone is flat, is, place a ruler or something else flat on the stone, and, if light or water passes between the stone and the ruler, the stone needs lapping.
Yes, make some lines on the stone with the pencil, and lap the stone until the lines disappear. It helps a lot.

Originally Posted by chapman

How so you ensure the lapping ends up being level? Do you just put the sandpaper on the table and scrub away or do you mark the top of the stone with a pencil?

As you state initially, every question you have - has been asked and discussed here, sometimes more than once even.

Welcome and feel free to look around and read up. Congrats on the stones, they might be quite wonky with him never leveling them. Grid and remove. I do more than one grid on new or "over worked" stones.

You'll want as flat a surface as possible to mount your sandpaper. Glass or granite is very good, less perfect things can work. Grind two bricks together and you'll get a flat surface where they meet, eventually.

Here is how you lap a stone with a leveling tool such as DMT or other lapping plate:

Originally Posted by chapman

Would the consensus be that the DMT 8" 325 would be my best bet for a lapping plate? Are there any others out there you all would recommend?

~~~I've been using a DMT Duo-Sharp 8" 350/600 for 3 years and it's handled all of my lapping plate needs nicely

Originally Posted by chapman

And as for finishers, would you guys say natural or synthetic? I'm leaning towards a thuringian or the Naniwa 12k or maybe even a coticule haha so many options! Your thoughts?

~~~since you have a Norton 8K, you probably ought to consider learning how to shave off that till you get it down pat in wood. This is coming from someone who has never shaved off a Norton 8 k but know many that have, and most concure, that it is a good edge to learn to hone and shave with

That said, you asked for opinions. I hone and shave using natural stones. I also use my naturals stones for touch ups. I prefer this edge to shave with. Not long ago, a good friend sent me a blade (one of mine) that he honed using a full synthetic progression, finishing with the then (may still be) popular Suehiro 20 K. It was a very sharp edge, but something was missing. Actually, he did up two of my blades that I sent him finishing with the 20 K Suehiro. Many like this edge. Admittedly though, I prefer natural stone edges to shave with

I shave more often off coticule edges though I have a J-Nat I like to use and a yellow green thurringian



I like the thurri edge, on particular razors, and not all. I've found some blades for me like certain stones and do best with a particular stone, and why I like to use multiple natural stones

This is only my opinion but since you have just been given some synthetic hones...if I were you, I'd stick with those and learn how to use them before branching off using different finishers. So many here claim they get a nice shaving edge with a Norton 8 K...why not try and emulate their efforts, since you already have the Norton 8K? Just a thought, and once you get proficient with the Norton 8K, then perhaps try a higher grit syn stone, say something like the 12 K CHUG. Lots of shavers here say they are getting nice edges from this stone. Watch the for sale ads and pick one up that someone has used and they say it has worked for them, but I would learn that 8K first, since you already have it...that's my 2 cents

Originally Posted by chapman

Also going to get some CrOx paste for my strop and the one question I have is do you put it on the back or the leather or back of the fabric?

~~~I've used Cr0x to finish off some film edges when I was experimenting with them (so I have syn honed=:-) I preferred stropping on pasted linen (hanging) over Cr0x pasted balsa. I tried Cr0x on leather...preferred hanging linen, when finishing off the syn edge. I never cared to use a Cr0x strop after the few coticule edges I tried it with...seemed to defeat the coti edge, and not improve it one lick. In my experience, going to Cr0x from coticule is a waste of time as I felt the Cr0x negated the coti edge, now that said, many have used Cr0x stropping to increase their perceived level of sharpness after coticule, and I suppose if that is what you want to do, be it far from me to tell you not to, but lightly stropping (10 or less laps) on a hanging linen strop pasted with Cr0x after coticule, you're ruining the coti edge, in that the Cr0x changes the coti edge, and not for the better IMO. I think those that struggle to get a better coti edge would benefit from spending more time with the coticule to learn how to get to the next level, rather than look for a fix from .5 Cr0x, but that's only my opinion



Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.

Originally Posted by shakinjake

~~~since you have a Norton 8K, you probably ought to consider learning how to shave off that till you get it down pat in wood. This is coming from someone who has never shaved off a Norton 8 k but know many that have, and most concure, that it is a good edge to learn to hone and shave with

Thanks for the response! I like the idea of natural stones but have a long ways to go before even considering getting one. My original plan was to use the two stones I have 'til I feel like theres nothing more I can do on them, and then move on to new territory or stick with them if they work well enough for me. The thought of natural stones is more of a temptation than anything right now because I received a razor from TheSuperiorShave that was honed on a coticule and I can say it felt very good on my face haha. My face may still be somewhat of a rookie when it comes to feeling small changes like that but I could tell it felt very "natural."

Originally Posted by shakinjake

I prefer this edge to shave with. Not long ago, a good friend sent me a blade (one of mine) that he honed using a full synthetic progression, finishing with the then (may still be) popular Suehiro 20 K. It was a very sharp edge, but something was missing. Actually, he did up two of my blades that I sent him finishing with the 20 K Suehiro. Many like this edge. Admittedly though, I prefer natural stone edges to shave with

What would you say makes you like the edge off of a natural stone like a coticule or thurry or J-Nat more so than the edge off a synthetic stone? I know everyone has different opinions just like to hear the reasoning behind them sometimes is all.

Sam