I Found It Over There

A lot of us know the arc of Michael C and the Zulu, a fascinating and I hope the most successful unearthing or finding of a finishing hone of significant quantity in modern times? Well I think there are other members out there who have tried to find suitable rock for finishing razors. I know generally there is an outline for the typical geologic strata that these stones are found in and I recall a post by Neil Miller that was excellent in this regard.
My question is: has anyone had any luck? If you were not looking for a commercial size deposit it seems like it might be fun....then again, maybe not.

As a veteran of many Geology Field Trips I can tell you it ain't fun. Poking around old mines and quarries, long hikes, bad roads, no roads, watching for snakes, being bitten up by bugs, poisonous plants, dragging all kinds of gear with you, private property issues, ornery critters and people, bad weather, etc.

But, if you live in the right part of the country and do some studying and get the maps and are lucky....you never know.

Finding stones is not difficult at all. Really. Silicon oxide is the most common substance on earth's crust, and what makes stones cut.
For me, I have found many stones, and I'm talking about quality stones, not something that reminds me a hone. Nothing in huge quantities, but enough for me, stones from bevel set to finish.
But, lapping them is much more difficult than finding them.
Also, slate is an abundant geologic formation, and most of them are suitable for razors. If it looks like a slate, you could have found something good. Don't search for fancy stones with purple dots with white swirls in a turquoise colored matrix. Fancy stones are by far the most common I see on threads about stones they found. Dull colored are just as good, probably better.
For all I know, sidewalks on South Africa could be nicely decorated on Zulu grey flagstones.

That's why they used to say "the roads in the U.S are paved with gold" Everyone used a straight in those days.

I too am a rockhound. There is a lot of rock in my yard, some it makes it to hones and some of it makes it to hone shaped rocks. If you enjoy the thrill of the hunt it is awesome. I have a few floating around out there in the possession of others. Perhaps in time I will dial in on just the spot. Rock changes very fast, I have one hone that I like a lot, and go back to that same rock face trying to find more, but no luck. I don't have a bevel setter. I have a great intermediate, very fast, and a couple of fairly nice finishers. My issue is finding soft rock. Most of mine a fairly hard and require a DMT to generate a slurry, the up side is they cut well and smooth out with water to polish well, for the most part. I have more duds than great hones. Sometimes they will just always be rocks.

I have spent a little time looking for a hone in my area.The Glenwood Formation is a layer of Shale along the Mississippi around here. I researched it found it, tried it, and it was a bust as far as honing. BUT I had a lot of fun and learned a few things along the way!

Oh just CRAP, now i have another thing to hunt around for and hoard up in piles ...:banghead:

Where do i go to learn more about the specifics of the geologies to consider? There is a layer of shale in the area.

And chert and flint and limestone and sandstone and geodes if i go up and down the elevations. I'll has to get me a cutting method.

I gave up trying to find knappable flint for use in my lock. The rocks are sparky but fracture in a linear fashion, not conchoidially- making it impossible to knap. It is very hard and sparky though. I still look for lock-sized chips. Flatted a tire on the stuff recently too-right through 8-ply tread.

Could make some nice square/smooth fire-ring rocks ...good for keeping your cowboy coffee warm by the fire!

There are a lot of difficulties that I am not properly equipped for (besides mentally). YOu have to be able to cut and finish a stone, much less find them. I've found quite a few stones that I thought I could try out...but to my dismay they aren't so easy to finish up to a flat surface to even put a razor to. That's an investment right there.

I live in an area that is covered with a lot of shale and slate. My methods are fairly barbaric, I hit the rock with a large hammer and break a piece off, I examine the broken piece, it needs a little bit of sparkle but no crystals larger than a sparkle, fine grain and no voids. If it has all of that and isn't too hard to break a piece off I take it home and cut it. Thats the easy part. Then it needs to be lapped. I lap by hand because a wet sander is expensive and not justifiable at this point. I lap on three progressions of DMT plates. I have discovered that lapping is everything. If the rock isn't flat and smooth you will never know what it really can do. There is also novaculite which is used for making hones. I haven't found any that I know of. My geology knowledge is very rudimentary. Happy rockhounding!

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

There are a lot of difficulties that I am not properly equipped for (besides mentally). YOu have to be able to cut and finish a stone, much less find them. I've found quite a few stones that I thought I could try out...but to my dismay they aren't so easy to finish up to a flat surface to even put a razor to. That's an investment right there.

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I have a Stihl TS800 and a 8" wet saw, both running diamond blades. They are remnants of jobs of days gone by. Otherwise the outlay for my goofing around with rocks would be insane. The DMT plates alone are pricey. Anyone who rock hounds for hones is in it for the hunt.

For me, I take them on a shop that cut and sell marble and granite. They always do it for free :beer1:
For lapping, I have some 1.5m/6ftx20cm/8" pieces of sandpaper. Piece of cake to flatten when they are nicely cut.

For finding out what rock has potential to be a hone, try the spoon trick. Rub a somewhat flat piece of stone with the back side of the spoon. If there are scratches, the stone can cut.
Something else I have observed; many times, when there are lines of quartz in the same rock, it's not suitable, even if the piece you have doesn't have any of those lines. They have inclusions that many times are not visible. If you go far from those lines, there might be some hope.

That's been my problem...inclusions of quartz. I gave up a couple years ago.

Thinking of creative lapping methods reminds me of the cutting board I have that my uncle made made out of Walnut burl. To lap that he stood on it and grabbed the bumper of a car and got dragged across the bridge in town. I wonder how that would work with shale????

It would but you would need a pretty big piece of shale, and it tends to fracture easily...

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Originally Posted by RezDog

It would but you would need a pretty big piece of shale, and it tends to fracture easily...

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And I have 14 EE boots! :D

Looks like Oklahoma and Arkansas have some nice stone. I'm doubting I'll find anything like this around me here in Hudson Valley, NY.

Novaculite: Used for making stone cutting tools and sharpening metal blades.

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Originally Posted by salvat36

Looks like Oklahoma and Arkansas have some nice stone. I'm doubting I'll find anything like this around me here in Hudson Valley, NY.

Novaculite: Used for making stone cutting tools and sharpening metal blades.

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Thank you , I never realized that Tripoli was made from Novaculite.

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

That's been my problem...inclusions of quartz. I gave up a couple years ago.

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On the other hand, Quartz = possibility of Gold...

I think that Garnet is a better sign of gold. If you look any of my hones with a loupe you will see a few tiny little gold flecks here and there, but no great veins as of yet.

I also remember reading somewhere about the process used in ancient Egypt about gold refining, and gold was found next to quartz veins. But gold is boring! I want hones!

That is true. There are a few things often found together, gold, quartz, garnet, and magnetite. There is a lot more quartz around than gold. I think where there is gold there is quartz, but the reverse isn't accurate. Like a good hone though it is good to find. Like gold good hones are also difficult to find, but they are out there.

So I just broke off a hunk of a stepping stone, from the yard of my house-but is a piece of the "Chattanooga Shale"* I am told. Rinsed it off and grabbed the first handy SS object, a small measuring cup and gave it a few strokes.

BAMMO! Nice and soft and put a great shine on the cup. Then i hit it with a DMT, oh it's soft alright--slurry soft! I really like this. It might not be a finisher, but I'll bet i find some bit of usefulness for these local rocks. If nothing else, I doubt I'll EVER buy another stone for knives and other such edges. I'm going to saw up a pile of these slates...now who whuzzit had that concrete saw? :D

Oh i remember, they were cutting open some geodes back in the summer. Heck this shale will be like butter in comparison.

So I also tried the sandstone, it's more scratchier! I'm thinking axes, shovels, hoes, and the like for that one.

*Chattanooga is 100 miles away, i haven't studied it, but i reckon it's a big formation.

TIME TO GO ROCKHOUNDING!

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Originally Posted by RezDog

TIME TO GO ROCKHOUNDING!

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And the funny thing is, I've been up here "on the ridge" for 12 years now and always wanted to get some more shale for stepping stones,



NOW I get to kill two birds,




wait



for




it


.
.
.
.
.
.
.
...


with one* stone!**

:rofl2:




*one my arse! LNHAD strikes! (Local Natural Hone AD) (we all _know_ the AD part by now.)

**Sedimentary > Clastic > Mudstone > Shale > Black-shale (carbonaceous) to be more specific.

I'm right on the western edge. (Finally found a map i could understand.)

http://www.oilshalegas.com/sitebuild...gashalemap.gif

Nice. I sometimes would like some company in being a rock gathering nut case. My barbaric technique has been fairly effective, perhaps you should employ it too. I have enough not hone rock for a new flower bed for the yard. That is one of the side benefits, what don't work for hones is great for landscaping.

Oh good gravy, i blew some serious razor-honing time messing with shale!

SOFT! I slurried it on the Norton 1k _and_ 4k for shizims and giggles. The Norton 4k is really fragile for anyone who doesn't know. But i quit messing with it long enough to work over new some barber hones and to hone out (finally!) a Peter Hennes blade.

hahaha. If I had a dollar...

The exposed shale-like stuff on my place turned out to be too "inclusive". BUT I picked up some goood looking shale from the side of the road yesterday. Hard freezes are good for SOME things!

Also bought a masonry disc for the circular saw and a carbide cable thingy for the hacksaw...But now this slab looks so good as a "whole" rock (nearly the shape of my state) I kinda hate to start whacking on it.

but of course i will.

rock dust is a pretty serious respiratory irritant so be sure to wear a mask when dry cutting. I usually wet cut outside which lowers the health risks, especially when there is a bit of a breeze. Play safe and have fun!

I only cut under a flood of water. The hackthingie isn't too bad. But i'm taking a break! Black velvet is the approximate look/feel of this rock.

The halibut is flaking off the weathered layers.

Halibut? Where did you get halibut?

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Originally Posted by RezDog

Halibut? Where did you get halibut?

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over by the henways of course. ;)

Well I got a big enough smooth spot to slap steel to it, a sample from across the county about 10 miles.

The blade has a fresh bevel "in the making" (had failed shave test, but would shave) so what's to lose methinks. A few light circles on each side, quick strop, and wow--i didn't kill the edge! May have helped it just a little bit.

So I got cocky and tried the trans Arkie...

Yeah, that killed the edge. And as the label on the Arkie proclaims "the best in the world", and my rock beat it...I reckon my rock is pretty good. :p

(much more testing to come...after I knock another mm or two off the top of the shale.)

You're just getting to the fun part now. Remember that when it comes to the performance of a natural, lapping is everything. Even a good rock with a very coarse lap will cut more coarsely than it's potential

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WadePatton

And the funny thing is, I've been up here "on the ridge" for 12 years now and always wanted to get some more shale for stepping stones,



NOW I get to kill two birds,




wait



for




it


.
.
.
.
.
.
.
...


with one* stone!**

:rofl2:




*one my arse! LNHAD strikes! (Local Natural Hone AD) (we all _know_ the AD part by now.)

**Sedimentary > Clastic > Mudstone > Shale > Black-shale (carbonaceous) to be more specific.

I'm right on the western edge. (Finally found a map i could understand.)

http://www.oilshalegas.com/sitebuild...gashalemap.gif

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Glad I live near that field here in KY...project for tonight...gonna put the tile saw to use

Woot. One more rockhounding nut in the mix. We could actually trade rocks as well. Calling all rock hoooouuuunnnddddds!

I can get ya some just let me know....friend is making Turkey calls from this slate I'm working on...lots of quarts sparkles in it it seems...we shall see how it works as a hone though fine and soft material...ice shows the sparkles a bit in this chip I knocked off

looks like a good start. Keep us posted!

If it turns out good ill send ya one rez

Ok. I have some at home i will be cutting in a couple of weeks when I get home from work. We can exchange addresses via PM

Works for me