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I hone with the shaptons, up to the 16k and then hit the Jnat for 20 mins.
What would happen if i used my Shaptons up to the 30k and then hit the Jnat?
"Try it and find out!" your probably saying :/
I dont wanna sell my Shapton 30k , i just feel sorry for it because it has no purpose.
You answered your own question. Try it & see.
20 minutes seems a long time on any stone after a 16k. :shrug:
The higher up you go in grit usually the fewer strokes you need to use.
paperweight ....... door stop ? ........ :rofl2:Quote:
Originally Posted by JOB15
I was copying DR.Matt off youtube.Quote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55
He was going from an 8k shapton to 20mins Jnat.
I only do a few strokes on the 16k then 20 mins jnat
I'm getting the best edges ive ever had.
Am i doing wrong?
If you are getting the best edges you ever had, great! We all have ways of getting there.
As to 20 minutes on a Jnat, I dunno, but have fallen asleep on blue Escher! Better and better. :D
I'd try to copy Lynn instead. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by JOB15
8k -> Jnat could be a considerable jump on a slow Jnat but from 16k not so much but it would depend on the Jnat.
A fast cutting Jnat polisher can make up for a lot of mistakes @ lower grits.
Shave off your 8 & 16. If it's horrible you're compensating with the Jnat. Otherwise do what works.
I recently bought a microscope and i've had to re invent myself honing wise.Quote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55
I was doing the Lynn circles strokes method and getting inconsistent results.
My technique was poor, you cant just go from zero to hero, i learnt.
The microscope showed me that i had patches where the score lines on the bevel wasnt reaching the very edge.
I still do the Lynn method but i check under the microscope after every stage and make corrections when and where to make sure i hit all of the bevel.
Then when its all good n proper ill head for the Jnat, even though the Jnat would repair or cover up any mistakes.
Next step is this method.. The supercharged Jnat :
Supercharged JNAT Straight Razor Edge - YouTube
Finish different razors on different hones :) For instance:
- 8K
- 16K
- 30K
- 16K + (slurried) Jnat
- 30K + (slurried) Jnat
Plenty options. Sure, if you're getting the best shaves ever, you don't need to experiment, but if you don't try, you don't know if it can get any better.
Let me offer a mor expedient suggestion. If after 8k you jump to a prepolisher, like a fine Suita or not so fine Asagi etc, with diamond plate slurry you will achieve the bevel polish he gets in that video in about 30 laps not 20 mins. The edge should already have been established by 8k.Quote:
Originally Posted by JOB15
You can then finish on a polisher also with an appropriate # of strokes for that particular stone. Again this will be a # of strokes not 20 minutes.
I really would not have the time to waste with that CBN slurry method.
Thanks for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55
I was thinking that the more you work the slurry the finer it becomes and then the finer the slurry the better the edge..
This is true to a point but you can also run the risk of honing past a good edge. As I said the edge should be established at 8k therefore excessive honing can be detrimental.Quote:
Originally Posted by JOB15
Look at the razor below. I have polished the bevel to the point you can see grain in the metal but look at the edge. It is starting to suffer because it was already properly sharp way back in the honing process. I still like polished bevels but I like a good shave better. If they coincide I'm a happy chappy but my focus is the edge not the bevel & as I said that is developed earlier.
Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55
I have recently realised what you are saying.
I've started to concentrate on the 1k/4k shaptons to not only set the bevel but to have the blade very sticky sharp from that point and only when ive achieved that will i move onto the 8k and forward.
Have you got a picture of one of you best edges?
Thanks again
Yes really need a good foundation or it's an uphill battle.Quote:
Originally Posted by JOB15
Ironically never had a m'scope when I did my best edge but it was the best razor as well so that made a difference. Iwasaki tamahagane western.
Don't know about best edge pics but I can show you 2 pumas that shave exactly the same. I wish I knew why tho.
Maybe the 1st one is well stropped.. :p
Now i understand your first pic.Quote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55
The bevel is very dark in your pics .
The actual edges are very nice.
The lights in my USB scope didn't work on my old computer so pics varied a lot but a dark sillhouette is also a great way to see edge discrepancies. Remeber, it's not all about the bevel polish. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by JOB15
Quote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55
You know for years now magnified Pics have been a double edge sword on here, there is some good from seeing the edge as it progresses through the stages and getting to see what an experienced honer sees, BUT There is the other side, when people start chasing the scratches and chasing a Mirror Bevel rather then chasing a comfortable shave...
Might want to read what Oz wrote there again, it is pretty important "It is not all about the bevel polish" remember to stop polishing before you pass right by a great shaving edge :hmmm:
How would you know if your gonna pass a great edge?Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
The best thing about the microscope is it lets me see when im not honing rite to the edge, usually near the tip on the down stroke.
I try heel first, nose first,straight,x-stroke and still some times dont get right to the edge.
The only way ive found to correct that mistake is by adding the pressure of a finger tip or my new stroke which i invented and call ,"The window wiper" i'm sure you can guess its action:o
It must be caused by not holding the razor flat on the hone i guess...
Speaking for myself I put my 40x B&L stereo scope on the shelf a long time ago. I use a 30x eye loupe to check edges. When honing I always give them a looksee before I start to see if there is any micro chipping or other anomalies. I usually don't check them again until I am done. I never go by scratch patterns, only by the feel of the edge during the progression of the honing. As I've said many times, the lower the power of the magnification, the better my honing. :)
Finger pressure can be a useful tool with uneven grinds but if your stroke is the problem 'pressure' is often also a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by JOB15
IMHO pressure is only useful to thin the bevel area. To contact the edge a light touch works best.
Thanks i will keep that in mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by onimaru55
I was thinking that the razor isnt flat. especially with a particular T.I blade.
I can see the water not being pushed by the tip.
Could the razor not be true, due to the fact that i have done previous bad honing on the blade.
I've learnt to hone with my 4 blades and my older brother 9 blades, all expensive razors and maybe a year on i'm only just honing them in the rite way.
If you're going to use your shapton 30k as a doorstop you can send it to me. I'll pay shipping. :)
Is it only on one side ?Quote:
Originally Posted by JOB15
If you know your honing to be the cause you may have introduced considerable wear but out of the factory warped spines & uneven grinds are more common than one might think. Sometimes we can tell from pics.
I think its the spine because it kinda has three notches along the spine, which lay on the hone instead of just a flat spine..But then i have a 7/8 bade that clearly wont sit flat, either the toe or heel is raised of the the hone. Thats why im thinking maybe ive done this to the blades.
I guess i will figure it out over time.
One mistake i know i make is having the hone between my legs on a coffee table.
I think i need it to be raised on say a dining table so i can get my elbow up level with the hone.
Youd have to pry it from my hands whilst i kicked and screamed :medvl:Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalCake
You need to be comfortable . I stand at the bench so my elbow is about a foot above the hone . :)Quote:
Originally Posted by JOB15
I had a Shapton 30k for a while but then picked up a German Frankonian stone which I preferred so I ended up selling the Shapton. I've also now got a couple of JNATS and a couple of coticules. I have a preference for natural stones as finishers.
I would like to sell my 30k but i think of it as part of a collection.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmrson
I took delivery of my Shapton Pond today :)
The only Shapton item missing is the Diamond lapping plate..
I think i will end up buying that down the line.
Although that could be money invested in my next Jnat or Straight Razor:idea:
See videos WRT smiling blades and Rolling X. That's how I "chase the toe" on well-worn specimens, or hone the smilies of course. It's all in the rocking-properly done, and not over-done if you're trying to work back toward square.Quote:
Originally Posted by JOB15
I agree with you, about how do you know when you've gone past a great edge. I too own a scope to help me see what I'm doing, or not! Yea Dr. Matt has influenced me some too, but I am I wrong to believe that the smooth bevel extends right off of the edge? If so then the smoother the surface the cleaner (less "toothy") the edge? As you see I'm new to this also and am really enjoying these forums. I am also learning more about slurries too.
Im starting to think that the whole bevel isnt where the magic happens, its rite on the edge were the 2 metals meet.Quote:
Originally Posted by pipeguy
Then best edges with the least microchips or teeth come from Jnat usage, i've noticed.
I still am yet to try the dry slurry finish and also the enhanced .10 slurry.
I received my Ken Schwartz .10 CBN slurry today ,so i'll try it at the weekend.
Although i find it hard to believe i can get better edges than im getting at the moment.
Every shave i have now is the best shave ive ever had, thanks to my Jnat.
I have talked with Dr. Matt a few times and sent a razor off to him last month along with my finishing stone. Reason being is he put a great edge on it so I will have some point of reference when I work on my other razors. It has helped a lot. So my next step is to contact Ken and get some stuff from him. I'm looking forward to hear how that goes! Thanks again..practice practice practice!
The qualifier is not that there are scratches in the bevel but how deep they are. If you have 1k scratches remaining at the time you finish there may be problems with the edge & you needed to do more intermediate honing not polishing.Quote:
Originally Posted by pipeguy
If you have 8 or 12k scratches which are very prominent under a scope, no biggy.
IME I found that until I got shaves with a scratchy looking bevel that rivalled the most polished edge I thought it was necessary to keep polishing tho some razors, eg stainless, will sometimes benefit from extra polishing time.
OK..That makes a lot of sense! Thanks..gives me a much better idea of what to look for and what I'm doing too!