Current opinions on Zulu Grey and Suehiro 20k? Shapton 30k?

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Originally Posted by Vasilis

So, the options for the thread are Suehiro 20k, Shapton 30k, and... the Zulu stone? Not Eschers, Charnleys, Jnats but the Zulu? Since when does that mediocre finisher fit in the hall of the greatest finishers? ..

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Vasillis, the OP did not suggest that the Zulu was in the same league with the Gokumyo or Glass Stones.. he simply asked for the current assessment of the Zulu compared to the others listed and possibly to others unlisted..

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There are some older threads on Zulu Grey, Suehiro 20k, and shapton 30k. I'd like a refresh.

Can the current users please report? Compare and contrast to other stones especially appreciated.

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Opinions he wanted and opinions he received, including yours. As always, opinions vary.


rs,
Tack

I have used all of them, the Suehiro 20k is the top choice for me

How about compared with your Jnats?

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Originally Posted by mainaman

I have used all of them, the Suehiro 20k is the top choice for me

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I have tried 2 Zulus, Vasilis has had four. To be completely honest this isn't even remotely anything like a representative sample to draw conclusions from.

However, it is enough to
(a) put me off them, as its my cash and I work, as I am sure most of us do, darn hard to earn it,
(b) make me conclude that there are bad ones, and
(c) remind me that all naturals vary from hone to hone.

The last point seems to hve been forgotten, at least by one of us. The Zulu is a natural. All natural hones differ within their own type. Ergo not all Zulus are equal.

I guess I don't conform to the stereotype Vasilis conjectures about above inasmuch that if I spend a lot of £s on something that is flawed I make a great big noise about it.

Usually I am quiet enough until I read superlative reviews based on single samples - only then I feel duty bound to redress the balance.

I do agree with Vasilis that there is a real danger of hype in such matters, indeed most finishers have been touted as the be-all and end-all in their day, even if they aren't that favourably looked on now. That probably has a lot to do with what Vasilis theorises - those with good impressions are more likely to share while those who feel, guilty and embarassed at spending too much on something that doesn't suit tend to keep quiet about the matter.

Me? I'm like Dragnets Joe Friday: I'm only interested in the facts, just the facts...

Regards
Neil

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Originally Posted by Neil Miller

I have tried 2 Zulus, Vasilis has had four. To be completely honest this isn't even remotely anything like a representative sample to draw conclusions from.

However, it is enough to
(a) put me off them, as its my cash and I work, as I am sure most of us do, darn hard to earn it,
(b) make me conclude that there are bad ones, and
(c) remind me that all naturals vary from hone to hone.

The last point seems to hve been forgotten, at least by one of us. The Zulu is a natural. All natural hones differ within their own type. Ergo not all Zulus are equal.

I guess I don't conform to the stereotype Vasilis conjectures about above inasmuch that if I spend a lot of £s on something that is flawed I make a great big noise about it.

Usually I am quiet enough until I read superlative reviews based on single samples - only then I feel duty bound to redress the balance.

I do agree with Vasilis that there is a real danger of hype in such matters, indeed most finishers have been touted as the be-all and end-all in their day, even if they aren't that favourably looked on now. That probably has a lot to do with what Vasilis theorises - those with good impressions are more likely to share while those who feel, guilty and embarassed at spending too much on something that doesn't suit tend to keep quiet about the matter.

Me? I'm like Dragnets Joe Friday: I'm only interested in the facts, just the facts...

Regards
Neil

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Thank you Neil, and, I'm glad you are back.
Indeed, it's not a big enough sample, nowhere near. But since there is even a single stone that under-performs, that raises questions.
And, yes, pretty much, my conclusion is this, since it's a natural, it will absolutely definitely 100% have variations.
After that, it's quality control.
And, I understand if MichaelC can't test each and every stone, since they were many. It ends up to luck.
In my last fortune cookie it was written "you'll be unlucky in the matter at hand". I was holding a Zulu, so, there is that.
I was strangely unlucky, enough to start thinking that all of them were overrated, and I'm glad a friend told me about the variations he saw in his own Zulu stones. But don't expect you to be the lucky one when you get your stone. Be prepared.

Ah well I ordered one of the Zulu stones it's not arrived here yet. As I do the lottery every week and have not won a bean I'll give you 3 guesses which type I'll receive! On the other hand maybe, just maybe it will be the one that works for me.
What I have learned is that any finisher is absolutely useless if you can't set a bevel in the first place. I'm still at the stage where some blades come out perfect and some I may as well use as a butter knife. Neil, thanks for the couple you honed for me they are my benchmark.
I've found that mostly I don't spend enough time on the 1000 I use the TNT as my thumb pads are like leather and I'm starting to understand that when I think the bevel is set it's only just starting to get there and still needs more laps. So even when my Zulu arrives I'll leave it in a draw until I'm consistently getting a shave ready edge of my Naniwa's. Only then will I be able to tell how good/bad the Zulu is as a finisher. I seriously think that some people look to the finishers as the magic ingredient to get a bad edge to miraculously become the best edge they've ever shaved with.
I'll come back to this thread at some stage in hopefully the not to distant future and give some feedback when I've tried the Zulu

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Originally Posted by Neil Miller

..
I do agree with Vasilis that there is a real danger of hype in such matters, indeed most finishers have been touted as the be-all and end-all in their day, even if they aren't that favourably looked on now. That probably has a lot to do with what Vasilis theorises - those with good impressions are more likely to share while those who feel, guilty and embarassed at spending too much on something that doesn't suit tend to keep quiet about the matter.
..

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and as Vasillis said:

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The whole hype about the Zulu stone is because, if someone likes it, he'll boast about it in as many opportunities as he'll get. If someone doesn't like it on the other hand, he'll forget that he bought it, it really feels bad that he spend 100+$ on something that doesn't worth it. And maybe if the new guys are lucky, he'll mention it once.

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I find that idea interesting. Consider the old business maxim "A happy customer might tell one other person about you but an unhappy customer will surely tell ten people." After all, if something works as expected.. big deal, that's what it was supposed to do; if it doesn't work well then we didn't get what we paid for and we complain. This is compounded these days by the fact that complaints live forever in the bowels of the search engine databases. Off the top of my head I can think of two products that had genuine, serious problems that were immediately corrected by the manufacturers and yet now, three and four model generations later are still being trashed on internet forums because of what can be turned up with a quick search. Also, everyone seems to know someone whose wife's cousin's husband worked at -a-shop-that-sold-the-stuff- and tells a (decade old) horror story about the product.

However..

Considering the human ego, it does seem reasonable that some of us won't be inclined to admit that we wasted our money on something (although we still might post asking for help thinking that we just haven't figured out how to use it.) Yet oddly enough, it is rare to find that someone has posted a message here simply saying "Hey, I wanted you to know that I tried Product X and it was really great!" It happens but not often.

I haven't said anything about my experience with the Zulu because I have tried just one (1) if them and have used it on about a dozen blades. As Neil points out, that is an embarrassingly small sample.


rs,
Tack

Hmmmm, Natural stones vary ??? Wow what a concept...

We have argued that for years on this forum, or "The wonderful world of finishers, what we all argue about and waste our money on"

The added dimension of using a finisher is the Guy pushing the steel across the stone, so now you just compounded the variables :)


I would love to test a "Bad Zulu" myself so if anyone stateside has one that they wouldn't mind parting with for a bit would PM me, maybe we could arrange something :) As I have only tested two and both seemed fine to me, the first one I tested I ran over 100 razors on and the second one I used at a Meet on only a couple...


ps: Full disclosure I did not run out and buy one, I need another finisher about as much as I need the 8 inches of snow that just fell...

Finishers and bevel setters...

There's always a better one out there waiting its turn.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

...The added dimension of using a finisher is the Guy pushing the steel across the stone, so now you just compounded the variables :)


I would love to test a "Bad Zulu" myself so if anyone stateside has one that they wouldn't mind parting with for a bit would PM me, maybe we could arrange something :)...

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Can I send you the guy pushing the steel across a Zulu?? I'll put myself in the mail... :)