The Frankonian

Well it seems this stone is fading into obscurity. At one time I really wanted one, but the vendor had a really bad reputation for taking so long to ship, they would void the return policy PayPal had back in the day. I don't know if that was true - I just bought into the rumors and ended up just never getting one.

File:St 14 frankonian.jpg - Straight Razor Place Library


But I saved "Franconian" as a key word on eBay to let me know when one came up for sale. In the last couple of years I think I got one alert - I think I bid, but the stone ultimately went for considerably more than the vendor was asking...

Now I note the vendor is no longer selling the stone!

Olivia's handgemachte Naturseifen

Well... that's seemingly the end of the Frankonian. Will the stone fade into obscurity? Or gain a cult status? Don't know. But I am saddened that I never purchased one lol! In my mind it'll reach cult status.

Do you have one or know of one being used??

Tell me about it!

From what i can remember about reading about these stones your not missing much very inconsistent.

I think you single handedly have launch it to cult status! LOL!

I remember when I started straight razor shaving not too long ago and Eschers could be had for $200 ( the nice label, bigger stones) now I see them $600-800, selling price! Was able to buy one at $170.00 (missed named on e-bay), but we are our own worst enemies.

Straight razor is gaining popularity and with that people read this forum and the few others that talk about razors and hones for them. With that, it comes the demand (perceived or real) for those things we read about.

We live in a world economy, so when riches shift from on country to another, some one with money is ready to pay more for that item!

All I remember, is that the folks that had them were decidedly underwhelmed. I'd love to try one, but not at the price point.

Clearly I only read the good reviews lol!!!

I had one that the vendor sent to me to test when her brother 'discovered' a source for the stones in Germany. I wasn't impressed and sent it to Lynn for him to give it a go. IIRC he wasn't impressed either. He told me he was going to mail it back and I told him not to bother. :)

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I had one that the vendor sent to me to test when her brother 'discovered' a source for the stones in Germany. I wasn't impressed and sent it to Lynn for him to give it a go. IIRC he wasn't impressed either. He told me he was going to mail it back and I told him not to bother. :)

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Killing the cult status one post at a time lol!!

Only goes to show that "sound investigation" can be lost in the noobs (me) pursuit of the... ultimate edge via a stone and hype rather than listening!

I really, really must have only read the hype lol!!

Thanks. :). :).

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I wasn't impressed and sent it to Lynn for him to give it a go. IIRC he wasn't impressed either. He told me he was going to mail it back and I told him not to bother. :)

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Now, that's like the FEDS saying interest rates are going up and the stocks go down that same day!

One of the most respected rockhounds around here told me that the best stone he has is a Frankonian, and he has serious HAD. He didn't get it from this site, and after a whole lot of searching, I found the information from the quarry, that was actually extracting and selling razor stones until some decades ago. They are still active but they do not respond, and I have mailed them many times last couple of years. Last time I think it was a month ago. But I'll keep trying. Maybe I'll give them a call.

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Originally Posted by Vasilis

One of the most respected rockhounds around here told me that the best stone he has is a Frankonian, and he has serious HAD. He didn't get it from this site, and after a whole lot of searching, I found the information from the quarry, that was actually extracting and selling razor stones until some decades ago. They are still active but they do not respond, and I have mailed them many times last couple of years. Last time I think it was a month ago. But I'll keep trying. Maybe I'll give them a call.

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Let me know how you fair!

​Actually, if you need some help, let me know. I have a couple friends in Germany who could do some calling if I explained the situation correctly enough.

I will ask Olivia if anybody is still interested, as far as i know these stones were from an own found source, where ever this is....

As already mentioned i know that there are different opinions around these stones, i read that some prefer a thuringian for example others wont give their frankonian away...

Here is Olivias Stone page:
http://www.olivia-seife.de/steinvergleich.htm

One seem to be the same picture like the SRP here above is brown Frankonian...

Here is where it all started (on the german GRF...Gut rasiert Forum....)

http://forum.nassrasur.com/showtopic...id=12292&time=

Leslemming was the one who did test the stone in comparison to others....
Sorry its in german...if any further information is requested i can translate some of the informations...

Good luck getting a reply from Olivia. She has been elusive for years and her being a founding member of another razor forum that Bart from coticule.de presided over, at the time of renewal of the site she was 'incommunicado' and so the site went under.

I corresponded with her for a while around that time, wasting my time on telling her exactly what I wanted and establishing a received-by date to allow me enough time to cancel the PayPal transaction. Everything was set, but she didn't send the PayPal request and numerous emails I sent asking why went unanswered. Then I asked Bart about it and when he said she was unreachable I counted myself lucky that I hadn't parted with any money.

As far as I know she is not and has not been a vendor for some cosiderable time - years - and is still incommunicado, although another enthusiast directed my attention to her brief appearance on some german (?) Tv show or podcast sometime after she went missing.

The stone came from her brother, who has a mine specialising in utility slate for landscaping, flooring and tiling. Being incommunicado must run in the family: he has an email address and a website but never bothered to reply to my emails.

I remember that prior to his web book Henk Bos and his wife visited this quarry and the owner gave him a couple of hones. I think I recall that correctly - no doubt Henk will correct me if I am wrong.

I gave up the quest in the end, partly out of chagrin and partly due to other dubious info on Olivia's site. If you are going to part with hard earned cash for something described as the bees-knees, then you bdtter have complete faith in your source's credentials, and to be quite frank I did not.

Regards,
Neil

Thanks Neil! Its all coming back to me now. You're like institutional memory around here lol. Its great to have back!!

Anyway, now that you have jogged my memory, I recall concluding that they never had the ability to provide a consistent product but loved the lime light!

Its as good a theory as anyone else's lol!!

It's too bad really - I really lusted over that E. German hunk oh rock!

With all due respect to the serious rockhounds out there. Lynn probably hones more razors in a month than most of us will hone in a life time. If I 'test' someone else's stone, which I am extremely reluctant to do normally, it will be with a few razors. Lynn hones 500 razors on a stone before he comes to a conclusion. Just saying ..... :shrug:

I'm not saying that everyone should just read what a respected source says about their experience with a given hone of course. By all means try different stones regardless of how the other guy likes it. That is what HAD is all about . ;)

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

With all due respect to the serious rockhounds out there. Lynn probably hones more razors in a month than most of us will hone in a life time. If I 'test' someone else's stone, which I am extremely reluctant to do normally, it will be with a few razors. Lynn hones 500 razors on a stone before he comes to a conclusion. Just saying ..... :shrug:

I'm not saying that everyone should just read what a respected source says about their experience with a given hone of course. By all means try different stones regardless of how the other guy likes it. That is what HAD is all about . ;)

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Is there someplace we can get a review on stones by Lynn?? Or by all of the honing gods on this site?? That sure would be helpful. I looked to the library but didn't find anything.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

With all due respect to the serious rockhounds out there. Lynn probably hones more razors in a month than most of us will hone in a life time. If I 'test' someone else's stone, which I am extremely reluctant to do normally, it will be with a few razors. Lynn hones 500 razors on a stone before he comes to a conclusion. Just saying ..... :shrug:

I'm not saying that everyone should just read what a respected source says about their experience with a given hone of course. By all means try different stones regardless of how the other guy likes it. That is what HAD is all about . ;)

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Therein lies the problem. If (unknown to us, of course) a 'new' natural hone has good to bad ratio of 1 to 3 and a honer of some influence gets a good one, hones 500 razors on it and announces that it is manah from heaven, then three quarters of the people who bought one after reading his review are going to suspect that all his rocks aren't kept on his table!

Lets not forget the mantra about naturals - they differ, sometimes markedly, from each other. You would have to be a nut to stake your reputation on just one example. No matter how good you are, you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

No, one man's say-so is not enough. What is needed is a number of capable honers testing different examples of the same type of hone. Enough to form a meaningful cross section, and thats quite a few reviewers.

Passing the same example from hand to hand will not give us a meaningful analysis at all: if the honers are worth their salt, and the example hone is a good one, they will all have the same findings, similarly they will find the same for a bad hone.

Even supposing you could get enough reviewers (the easy part) and enough franconians (for examples same) to test (expensive and doubtful), then what to make of the conflicting results if the hone has a high fail rate? Simple logic dictates that people will attach importance to what their favourite honer reports and doubt the ability of the nay-sayers.

A thankless task for those involved, methinks!

Regards,
Neil

I hear eschers are underwhelming! (Waits for prices to fall)

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Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Therein lies the problem. If (unknown to us, of course) a 'new' natural hone has good to bad ratio of 1 to 3 and a honer of some influence gets a good one, hones 500 razors on it and announces that it is manah from heaven, then three quarters of the people who bought one after reading his review are going to suspect that all his rocks aren't kept on his table!

Lets not forget the mantra about naturals - they differ, sometimes markedly, from each other. You would have to be a nut to stake your reputation on just one example. No matter how good you are, you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

No, one man's say-so is not enough. What is needed is a number of capable honers testing different examples of the same type of hone. Enough to form a meaningful cross section, and thats quite a few reviewers.

Passing the same example from hand to hand will not give us a meaningful analysis at all: if the honers are worth their salt, and the example hone is a good one, they will all have the same findings, similarly they will find the same for a bad hone.

Even supposing you could get enough reviewers (the easy part) and enough franconians (for examples same) to test (expensive and doubtful), then what to make of the conflicting results if the hone has a high fail rate? Simple logic dictates that people will attach importance to what their favourite honer reports and doubt the ability of the nay-sayers.

A thankless task for those involved, methinks!

Regards,
Neil

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Maybe if we got all the senior mods to create a "findings page" where they debate thier findings we would at least have a great place to begin our debates. Its all good that we don't push what be believe in order to be civil but this is supposed to be fun - not a chase to the bottom. Without consensus, that's sometimes what it becomes for the noob.

Why?? Because People all over the web push junk to shavers uncaring! There is surely enough consensus here amongst us to save many of us who are sold by uncaring vendors on the net.

I started a thread about the library being a great place to begin benchmarking! I love Lynn's detailing of the pyramid system under honing. Does it work for me?? Not so well. But he added that Glen believed in the "it has to shave on the 4k stone.". That did work for me. I would love to hear what Binardo has to say though!! Were all the mods to pipe in!!! What a resource for us to use to debate the claims of the likes of me when I sell stropping on the magic brick I'll sell you for only $4,990.

Well that's my two cents!

Just to be clear lots of guys don't stick around long enough to see fads come and go.

Were I one of those guys I would have given up after my magic coti didn't quite pan out thinking I just didn't have the skill!

So who knows "real" History about these Stones ?

I want some real facts and no personal meanings on this one....sorry...if this one might be a good stone there should be any literature or other source....

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Originally Posted by doorsch

So who knows "real" History about these Stones ?

I want some real facts and no personal meanings on this one....sorry...if this one might be a good stone there should be any literature or other source....

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If I recall correctly, the stones were mined in a part of Germany that was under communist rule. You have a valid point, but one that may not conform to what you would expect out of the Germany of today.

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Originally Posted by doorsch

So who knows "real" History about these Stones ?

I want some real facts and no personal meanings on this one....sorry...if this one might be a good stone there should be any literature or other source....

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It's here on the site somewhere, along with a picture of the quarry sign including its address (I think).

If the address is not in the pic then the salient details were given in tbe accompanying text.

You will just have to search for it.

Regards,
Neil

PS:just remembered the quarry is in the Hof region, Bavaria.

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Originally Posted by earcutter

Is there someplace we can get a review on stones by Lynn?? Or by all of the honing gods on this site?? That sure would be helpful. I looked to the library but didn't find anything.

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These nuggets began as being all I could find on another forum of which Lynn was no longer a member. As he posted on SRP I added to it for a time. A lot of nuggets there if you take the trouble to pan the gold. :)

Lynn Abrams On Honing - Straight Razor Place Library

" Frankonians on the soles of his shoes!"

Attachment 162946

Looks like Tarkus has had a mishap with a rivet gun in his machine shop...HAR!

Yeah that pinning job on his neck is aweful

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Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Looks like Tarkus has had a mishap with a rivet gun in his machine shop...HAR!

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Meh, a stray rivet here and there, but ya gotta admit! He certainly walks sharp! :D

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

These nuggets began as being all I could find on another forum of which Lynn was no longer a member. As he posted on SRP I added to it for a time. A lot of nuggets there if you take the trouble to pan the gold. :)

Lynn Abrams On Honing - Straight Razor Place Library

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Thanks - I have read that. But it doesn't delve too deep into stones. Moreover, I don't know how dated it is. Is it still relevant?

I mean, I know it's "relevant," but does he still feel this way? Do the other moderators think the same thing?

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Originally Posted by earcutter

Thanks - I have read that. But it doesn't delve too deep into stones. Moreover, I don't know how dated it is. Is it still relevant?

I mean, I know it's "relevant," but does he still feel this way?

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I won't put words in Lynn's mouth and then quote him ....... :) I have seen Lynn post that where he began doing circles it was only with the bevel setting, now he is doing circles on up the grit ladder. When most of the stuff in that tutorial was collected and posted Lynn wasn't doing circles at all, IIRC the Naniwas hadn't come along yet, the j-nats were few and far between. So there has been a lot of water under the bridge and Lynn has sailed along with it. He has, and continues to be, an innovator of honing techniques, but since the hones and the razors are ancient I suspect much of that info is still applicable today.

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Originally Posted by earcutter

Do the other moderators think the same thing?

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Damned if I know ...... :thinking: I know we all think the same about enforcing SRPs rules, but we don't really discuss our honing philosophy in the moderator forum IIRC. :cool:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I won't put words in Lynn's mouth and then quote him ....... :) I have seen Lynn post that where he began doing circles it was only with the bevel setting, now he is doing circles on up the grit ladder. When most of the stuff in that tutorial was collected and posted Lynn wasn't doing circles at all, IIRC the Naniwas hadn't come along yet, the j-nats were few and far between. So there has been a lot of water under the bridge and Lynn has sailed along with it. He has, and continues to be, an innovator of honing techniques, but since the hones and the razors are ancient I suspect much of that info is still applicable today.



Damned if I know ...... :thinking: I know we all think the same about enforcing SRPs rules, but we don't really discuss our honing philosophy in the moderator forum IIRC. :cool:

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Thanks! lol - well there you have it. It's dated.

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Originally Posted by earcutter

Thanks! lol - well there you have it. It's dated.

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Yeah but the point (no pun) is that we are doing the same thing men were doing a couple of hundred years ago, many times with the same rocks. In some cases the old ways transcend time. IMHO.

If you click on the link 'History' at the top bar above the article you can see its evolution - it's about 4 years old :)

David,,,,genius is not knowing everything, it's knowing where to find it. :shrug:

I just happen to know where the best example of a Frankonian stone is stored. I have a close friend, who requests to remain anonymous, because of his collection of rare hones. He told me the story of his Frankonian stone, over tea one day. He was digging for artifacts in Ingolstadt, Germany, deep in the dark forests, when his shovel struck something.
To his surprise, this beautiful specimen was unearthed. I just happened to have my camera on the table next to my tea, so I snapped this photo. I used a DMT 1200 credit card, I always keep in my wallet, to raise a little slurry on it.

If your truly in the market for a gem like this, since we can't talk prices on the open forum, then PM me & I'll let you know the amount & where to send payment. Don't let this one get away from you David,,,,,

Attachment 162953

OH! MY!..........................

You all got the wrong hones and you don't even know how to spell the name. There is one and only one real Franconian, and it is engraved on it back like this:

Attachment 162957

That image itself is the guarantee that there is only one of them, well, at least until 1975, there may be imitations made afterwards.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Yeah but the point (no pun) is that we are doing the same thing men were doing a couple of hundred years ago, many times with the same rocks. In some cases the old ways transcend time. IMHO.

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And yet the forum is full of people finding obscure ways to do that same thing different ways on rocks that were no where to be found a hundred years ago LOL!!

If that wasn't the case... we wouldn't be talking about this on a thread I started about a Frankenstein hone - that may or may not be worth its weight in Gold depending on who you talk to lol!!

Anyway... I am high-jacking my own thread! Someone stop this crazy train :)!!

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Originally Posted by gugi

You all got the wrong hones and you don't even know how to spell the name. There is one and only one real Franconian, and it is engraved on it back like this:

Attachment 162957

That image itself is the guarantee that there is only one of them, well, at least until 1975, there may be imitations made afterwards.

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You'll note on my first post I spelled it both ways lol. For some reason, it seems to take on a K at some point.

Either way! It's settled for me! I would never buy a stone from a guy who looked like that LOL!!

Oh, you just don't know the guy. He is, well used to be, extremely persuasive :)

Odd that moustach was so popular till a certain dictator ruined it for everybody.