Coticules... ymmv indeed!

Let me preface by saying I am a complete beginner, especially to honing, so everything I say should be taken with a grain of salt.
I think I may be in love with my coticule! It was my fifth hone purchased following the usual path of Norton 4/8, King 1k, and a Phig, but the coti has begun to earn a special place in my rotation. It has quickly taken the Norton out of play.
I know many have said naturals are hard to learn, but the coti has been pretty straight forward IME. I have used the dilu and uni framework to form my own method which has gotten great results/shaves so far. My favorite aspect is never having to worry about moving up in grits/stones. I just add some water and keep going forward til I'm done or ready for a finisher. I think I have just haphazardly joined the coti cult.
Does anyone have any finishing tips for the coti and/or what is a great finishing stone to using afterward? Is anyone finishing with Crox? I just ordered a Zulu and I'm excited to see what that brings to the table!

aa1192,

I often use my two (2) coticules - a La Verte and a La Veinette - for 'intermediate' honing.

I find the edges, straight off the coticule, do not have enough 'bite' for me : it is difficult to describe this :(

For me, the edges are definitely 'improved' if I use a Naniwa SS 12k after the coticules - usually ten (10) to twenty (20) depending on the razor.

The edge might then get ten (10) to twenty (20) passes on a CrOx dusted hard leather paddle strop to finish if I think it needs it.

Before the first shave with the new edge, I will give it 100 passes on a linen hanging strop, and 100 passes on a tallow tanned leather hanger.

(Routine stropping is done a a Neil Miller modular paddle strop).

I find this experimenting is another satisfying facet of straight razor shaving :)

Have fun !

regards

Russ

For finish, clean the coticule really well from any slurry and have it just slightly damp, even dry - it cuts a bit slower this way than when you have water, so you can squeeze just a little extra mileage out of it.

And/or decrease the pressure below the weight of the blade - it's quite advanced technique because the margins of the stroke are very thin. It may be helpful to put the scales towards the shaving position and use your pinky to balance the razor.

It's the same idea - decrease the cutting action so that the groves that the abrasive particles carve in the steel are shallower, i.e. you have more polished surface on the steel.

Or you can simply use the more standard approach and use a finer abrasive :)

One way to see if you can successfully do weight of the blade, or less, is to hold the stone in your hand in such a way so that it is balanced at the tipping point, like a child's seesaw and do your strokes. There was a video of this technique shot by a former member here and it is pretty cool. Obviously if you apply more than weight of the blade the stone tips over.

Huh I may try that though I'm not a big fan of honing in hand seems like an extra, unnecessary variable.

You can balance it on a table too, doesn't need to be in your hand.

If the stone is 2"X 6" or even 8", hand honing is not hard, and I'm starting to prefer it due to the added sensitivity to pressure( specially on the last finishing strokes). That's just me. I tried the uni and the dilo methods and find that the dilo works better for me. The uni it's also good, specially if I finish it first on the 16k Shapton and go back to water only for the feel of the coti finish. Had tried 4 cotis and only two made the cut for finishers that where worthy IMHO. Consider your self lucky! Enjoy!

Also, for me, finishing on the Zulu after the coti, have improve the sharpness in some razors.

I've fooled around with hand held honing, especially on those 5x2-1/2 coticules that were frequently used by pro barbers back in the old days. I too feel the feedback in both hands. Most of the time my hone is laying on the countertop, but hand held is pretty cool, though there may be more room for error if the honer isn't focused on the work.

I find mine finishes well - make sure it is absolutely clean and spray it with water from a squirt bottle periodically.

I have to say that I like to go on from the coticule to translucent Arkansas - it seems to give it an even nicer edge - a small piece should be fine as a finishing stone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aa1192

It has quickly taken the Norton out of play.

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So does that mean you have a Norton you want to unload to another newbie ? ;)

It's in the mail Nodak

In spite of what one may read, all coticules are not created equal, and it took me many examples to learn that fact. The first one I bought, was the best of the breed, although I didn't know it at the time. After many more purchases, trying to catch "lightning in a bottle," I have two La Veinnettes that are equal to each other, and superior to all the others.
But, I must say that there are examples of other veins that have a place here for specialty purposes. But, those two LV's do everything I need from a stone ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Druid

In spite of what one may read, all coticules are not created equal, and it took me many examples to learn that fact. The first one I bought, was the best of the breed, although I didn't know it at the time. After many more purchases, trying to catch "lightning in a bottle," I have two La Veinnettes that are equal to each other, and superior to all the others.
But, I must say that there are examples of other veins that have a place here for specialty purposes. But, those two LV's do everything I need from a stone ...

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I've got a la veinette kosher 8x2 that is quite good but it took me some fooling with it to discover that. Still takes a lot of round trips to get "there." I have some vintage pieces that belonged to barbers and predate the current Ardennes quarry so no telling what pet name the quarries gave to the veins those came out of. Some are real good, as in fast/fine (for a coticule) and others I just haven't figured out yet. In general I always assume if I'm not getting "it" out of a coticule it is me, not the stone. I could be wrong though, I was wrong once before. :beer2:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

In general I always assume if I'm not getting "it" out of a coticule it is me, not the stone. I could be wrong though, I was wrong once before. :beer2:

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I stuck with the one I had (Largely due to impoverishment, more than as a conscious choice) and it my results have gone from 'ok' to very good although it has taken work. [Insert diety here] alone knows whether my coticule came from the Ardennes quarry and if so what vein it is - I'm actually rather glad I stuck with it.

I told this before but I'll tell it again. I have a TI super gnome 5/8 that I had honed years ago when I first got it. Needed a touch up and I took the La Veinette and water only. Every 30 x strokes I made a pencil mark on a notepad and stropped and tried HHT. Took over 160 strokes to get to the point where I felt it was as good as I could get it. I got as good a shave out of that razor, sharp/smooth, as I have out of any I've ever shaved with, not matter what it was honed with, or who did the honing.

I normally shave with many different razors but I did a two week rotation between the TI and a Ralf Aust I had gotten from SRD, great razor, and both just kept on trucking for the entire two weeks. I could have shaved with the pair indefinitely but get bored with the same routine, so went back to a lot of variety.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I've got a la veinette kosher 8x2 that is quite good but it took me some fooling with it to discover that. Still takes a lot of round trips to get "there." I have some vintage pieces that belonged to barbers and predate the current Ardennes quarry so no telling what pet name the quarries gave to the veins those came out of. Some are real good, as in fast/fine (for a coticule) and others I just haven't figured out yet. In general I always assume if I'm not getting "it" out of a coticule it is me, not the stone. I could be wrong though, I was wrong once before. :beer2:

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I agree with you 100%, and that is the reason that the stones that did not work for me, never went down the road ... Although, there are a couple that are better suited to woodworking tools than shave implements.

But, one day curiosity will get the better of me, and I'll revisit all those stones. Only time will tell if that will answer any questions or not!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I told this before but I'll tell it again. I have a TI super gnome 5/8 that I had honed years ago when I first got it. Needed a touch up and I took the La Veinette and water only. Every 30 x strokes I made a pencil mark on a notepad and stropped and tried HHT. Took over 160 strokes to get to the point where I felt it was as good as I could get it. I got as good a shave out of that razor, sharp/smooth, as I have out of any I've ever shaved with, not matter what it was honed with, or who did the honing.

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Again agree!

My prized LV's are quite aggressive on slurry, but painfully slow in the finishing mode, on plain water only. They require a lot of laps to get there. And, therein lay my initial problems ..... Just not giving enough strokes in the final stage.
But, like any stone, it takes lots of experiments to unlock the secrets hidden within ..

Yeah I think I'm not spending enough time on my finishers across the board. I picked a natural combo coticule yesterday for a dollar and I'm excited to try it out tonight!