Can anybody tell me anything about natural hones?
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Can anybody tell me anything about natural hones?
I see them everywhere I go. It's literally driving me mad! I lap each and every one of them secretly in my mind, you see.
Have you checked out the SRP library here ........ Category:Hones - Straight Razor Place Library ? Some info there. You can also do a forum search for 'natural' and pick up on some threads from the past.
I sent an email to The Perfect Edge but never heard back. I've checked out some of the older threads but am about as confused as I was before.
Before Jacob layed his head on the stone, he lapped it.
jte87 - how much do you know about honing with synthetics?
I ask because generally, when speaking of naturals, one compares it to a synthetic.
For example, most naturals are used to finish your blade, so 12k + "grits". PHIGS, JNats, Esher's etc...
People claim they give a smoother shave than synthetics. The jury is your face though.
Of course, there are many naturals under the 12k synthetic range. Coti's with slurrys. Belgian Blues, etc are all fine stones used to get you to your finisher.
There is a lure to natural stones. I know I love em. But they are all temperamental and assigning them a real grit like a synthetic is impossible.
Naturals in my opinion are great, but should really only be used after knowing how to use your synthetics. Your synthetic is your benchmark... Or your mainstays.
The other thing about naturals is guys are passionate about them - and loyal. The rules are ment to be broken with them hence, I fully expect someone to pick up on something I said about an example I gave and go wild lol!!
Have fun.
Natural hones is a long and confusing subject filled with a lot of opinions and subjective interpretation. They mostly come in pre polishers and polishers. Very few are bevel setters. A pre polisher goes after the bevel set and before the polisher or finish hone. They can be used with or without slurry. The use of slurry is mainly to increase the cutting speed of the hone and give it a wider range of grit equivalent. Every natural hone is an individual in which you need to develop a relationship with in order to get the full potential. Some naturals are more consistent from stone to stone, probably due to quality control at the manufacturing level. It is a long and deep rabbit hole
I probably should've mentioned I haven't even bought a strop yet, much less a hone. I'm about as new as you can get. I'm one of those that agonizes over decisions such as this. I've put years into deciding which ceramic grill I want, not to mention table design.
Hmmmm. Shaving is best done with a razor in hand.
Natural stones come from the Earth. They're mined, dug up, literally found in nature. They are pieces of 'rock'. They have been cut and shaped to resemble a hone a lot of times. Cut into a rectangular pattern. Sometimes they are irregular shaped. Most often they're not assigned a grit, or determined abrasiveness. Some are coarse, some are fine. Some are in between. Some are coarser than coarse, some are finer than fine. Varying levels. Some are good for razors, some are not.
Synthetic stones are made by man.
You can give yorself time before looking at stones . Learn to strop & shave now . Agonize over stones later. :)
Jte87,,,,the only thing that you really need to know & remember about natural stones, is that the "Coticule" is the Holy Grail of all stones.
With a coticule in your hand, all razors deliver a wonderful shave.
With a coticule in your hand,,,all in life is good. :angel:
Hi and welcome, as mentioned by Rez Dog naturals are sometimes a dark hole with no end :-) but i really like the stones, also i hate that there are not that much bevel setters....
If you are more interested in details check back Henk Bos Grinding and Honing Part 1-4 and on Coticules everything beeing around on Coticule.be...and for shure do a good search here youll find a lot of information already asked for and replied to...
http://bosq.home.xs4all.nl/
.........But seriously, learn to shave and strop first with a shave ready razor, try to find a barber hone to refresh the shave ready razor when it starts to tug. When you are ready to hone, buy a Norton 4k/8k man made hone first and learn how that works, when you feel like you have that worked out then investigate natural stones. Every natural stone is different and every family of natural hone has a different leaning curve.
Naturals are almost exclusively finishers except for Coticules which are more wide range but come with a steeper learning curve
Its not really surprising he didn't reply given the breadth of the subject and the open-ended nature of your question. Give the guy a break, he makes his living by working hard, so I doubt that he has tbe time to write a small book on the subject, gratis, just for you!
As for your admission of being obsessive even over a grill, then I would take that as a good sign to leave naturals well alone and stick with synthetics. Not only are naturals one-of-a-kind, varying wildly within the same type of stone, but they take a while to learn and get the best from, much longer than synthetics.
Try the conventional way of learning with known synthetics that give proven results rather than trying to run before you can walk. You will save yourself a lot of headaches and frustration.
Besides, you have the answer to your question in the archives and hone postings on this forum. All you have to invest is your own time and effort.
Regards,
Neil
Man up jte87, this is a site for super men, fearless, eccentric wielders of open blades. As noted, the search box informs. And listen to Hirlau except he meant an Escher, not Coticule.
The thing about naturals is this....the rocks grow in layers from sediment on the ground at first, then as layers piled up over years-decades-centuries-millenniums....kinda similar to rings in a tree, they build up weight applying pressure and eventually changing the structure, can effect grit, shape of particles, etc. Considering how much the sediment could change over time, each layer can vary in grit so an inch of rock can vary in composition from top to bottom by a lot....or a little or none at all depending on the conditions the stones went through. If you look at a lot of thuringian stones for example, or deal with many of them youll start noticing a lot of them with one side of the hone a lot darker than the other with a distinct line in them where it transitions. Or you can drive through a cut in a hill where your roads pass through and see the layers, thick rock layer followed by looser rock materials with huge variations in color as well.
Best way I know to explain. Hope this helps
+1 to what Dennis said, that is why if you get a good one ........ hang on to it. :beer2:
How many igneous hones you use in your rotation? :-P
Besides, I think he was describing metamorphic sedimentary rocks...
There is one well-known one that achieves its qualities by being at the junction of an igneous flow. It's nature and appearance vary accoding to how far away from the heat source - any idea?
Regards,
Neil
Diamond is really a metamorphic rock. It is the same stuff as soft graphite and carbon, but heat and pressure have transformed it into what is termed an allotrope of carbon - same stuff, different characteristics. Garnets are a form of metamorphic rock, but often found within igneous deposits...
Cat Eye is a reflective glass sphere found in roads. It is not a natural...
Steeleye (Span) is an old english folk/rock group from the late 1960s..,
Clayeye is one of a pair found in dolls and assorted puppets...
Mr. Miller has a reputation of knowing his hones very well, we can now see that he also know geology. I am impressed.
Not sure Neil, pumice or granite?
When we speak of Naturals, it is usually as a finisher. A proper Natural can finish an 8 or 12K edge and make it more comfortable on the skin. Many have their favorites and will defend them to the death.
But, really you can achieve as good and edge or almost … with good Chrome Oxide and other sprays/ pastes and proper stropping on leather. Synthetics are so uniform and ridged they can leave a fine serrated edge that can abrade skin as well as cut whiskers, what some describe as “Harsh”. The random grit of Naturals or the friability of the grit can polish the edge, smoothing serrations resulting in a more comfortable shave.
Naturals can vary wildly in performance, Synthetics are consistent and deliver consistent results, depending on the driver. Your Norton 1k will be just like my Norton 1k.
As said learn to shave and maintain a razor first. When ready, buy a set of Synthetic stones and learn them. You want to remove as many variables as possible. The largest variable is you, the driver and your ability to learn and apply what you have learned into practice.
Synthetics will give you a base line from which to judge based on your equipment, skill, your face and beard type. Then if you feel the need, test-drive Natural edges and or Natural stones knowing that all naturals are different, many from one side to the other. Doing so will introduce many variables, enough to cause one to give up, especially if you do not understand what you are looking at and experiencing.
The best advice I can give you is read as much as you can here and other sites… and find a local mentor to speed up your learning curve and keep you from making needless purchases.
Ratho Hone
Thank you! How do I find someone to learn from? I'm the only person I know of in my area interested in straight shaving.
Jt, im in central kentucky, maybe you could try and make it up here for our next meeting