Just 1 pic of my hone collection. big enough for me, (small pile of rocks to sum lol)Attachment 170509
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Just 1 pic of my hone collection. big enough for me, (small pile of rocks to sum lol)Attachment 170509
Now the question is, do you know how to use them? Take this as a friendly question and not an insult.
Yes I do, Ive been using straights for nearly 5 years and been honing for about 1 year,
Nice question lol.
I run into to many people that have large collections of items such as tools, cameras, guitars and such but couldn't use them properly. I have a large collection of SR's but only a few stones as I have mentioned in previous posts and I do quite well with those. I can understand having a large number of different screw drivers because not all screws are created equally, maybe if I tried a few of the newer synthetic stones I might change my tune but I have never found a knife or razor that I could not put an edge to. Now having said that, I do have a Norton 4/8K and 12K on the way to try out.
I do pick up hones when I can hence the amount I have (more than I need) but as most are natural stones I know they can vary a bit, still finding out what I like best,
I do get on well with the Welsh Tri hone set nice stones
I have to be careful because that could just well be the next collection I start :rofl2:
Been there and done that. Nice collection of rocks. I had up to 60 at one time, including barber hones. Down to 16 + one barber hone, kept the bare essentials ..... :rolleyes:
It is fun to experiment with different rocks, but ........ like the 'House Of The RIsing Sun',........ just don't do what I have done. :D
Nice bunch of rocks. I like the two in the upper right.
One thing I dont get is if you have the stones, you can learn them , if you dont, then you can never learn them. So is there an upside to having less stones? I dont think so, as one stone is too many if you dont use it.
What you say is true AFAIC. The thing to watch out for is not to get into HAD early on. Get your basic setup, whether it is norton, naniwa, shapton ...... learn on the basic setup before going for more and more hones. I suppose most guys do that anyway. IME if you get too many too soon it is difficult to discipline yourself to stick with a setup until you learn it, and move on to the next.
Eventually, if you stick with it, you'll learn them, but it just is easier to learn one variety well before getting a bunch of 'em. Once you've got the basics down with one set of hones it is far easier to figure out other rocks. I always go back to what jazz saxophonist Charlie 'Yardbird' Parker said, "Master your instrument, then forget all that stuff and play." Master the set you have, then venture out into the different rocks.
I know that feeling. You start honing and then you start collecting hones and if you are unlucky like me you collect even more hones and for honing you have no more time.
If you could only keep 2 and you had to drop the rest into the ocean :) which 2 would you keep?
all of them
Hmmm not so easy to answer, so I will give you answers.
As I have a few razors that are NOT honed up yet it would have to be 1) The King 1/6 combi and the Norton 8K.
If it all my razors where honed up and only maintenance/touch-up required then 2) prob both Charnley forest hones as I could always sell one and fund another purchase lol, joking aside one CF and the dalmore blue, not much use for touch-up but it looks great and not so easy to come by these days.
A nice collection my friend - remember, it is only the beginning, so it is just as well that you have plenty of room on that ledge!
It is good to know that you are familiar with and use all of them. Like Guitstik said, a large number of people are just collectors - fair play to them, but they are missing another dimension if they are not users as well. I have a large collection of cameras and lenses along with darkroom gear like large format (5" x 7") cold cathode enlargers and colour control heads, and I know how to use every bit of kit to take pics, develop them, mix my own developers, make my own papers, etc, etc. Like I say, it adds another wonderful dimension.
Some of my hones:
Attachment 171045
There are maybe 4x - 5x more than this in various boxes and piles, and yes Guitstik - I know how to use them all and regularly use them!
Regards,
Neil
Great Collection Neil some very nice stones....!!
As already mentioned only collecting the stones shouldnt be the goal, for me it is not...
And yes it takes a certain time, on some stones a quite long time to learn how to properly use them...
These are my stones and up to date now i stopped collecting further more stones, so the next period of time (how long this will take i do not know) i will try to work and learn more with the stones i own...to be true i would guess i learned about 20-30% of the stones i own now...and for shure its not only learning the stone its also improving the own technique of honing further more....so there is much more work to do ;-)
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2908/...3e4271_c_d.jpg
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2906/...153426_c_d.jpg
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2823/...4e3476_c_d.jpg
the botle neck for learning new hones to me seems the slow way my beard grows I have only 7 hones but I'm stil mainly using my first piece of cotcule
NO! in no way does anyone 'need' al those beautifull stones. if you have a shaving razor 1 single finishing hone is enough to maintain it ;)
if you want to start buying straight razors at a fleamarket or from ebay or whatnot it could be an idea to buy a simple set of 1K, 4K, 8K of the norton stones or a set of two hones from naniwa, 1K and a 3|8 K combo hone.
and if you want to improve on those edges you could get something in their collection :gl:
So, 4000/8000 is enough for honing my razor?
Its possible to shave from a 8000 stone but as a beginner i would additionally use a finishing stone (10-12000 or above) either natural or synthethic...
So 2 stones, 4k/8k and 10k/12k is the way to go.
All the experts I have talked to say don't go to a 12k until you feel you have gotten as much as you can from a 4/8k combo. After a year of straight shaving I embarked on learning to hone from bevel to shave ready on a King 1k for bevel setting and the Norton 4/8k combo. After running the same razor three times thru them and a second one time I finally started getting a decent, if not a little harsh shave after the 8k. When I can get a smooth shave from the 8k I'll think of investing in a 12 or 20k for extra smoothness. Close id the name of the game, smooth is an extra in my book.
Really, the only reason to have that many stones is if you are restoring razors and need to bring a dead one back to life. Just starting out with a SR, all you really need is a strop and a touch up stone like a Franz Swaty. This Forum is an Excellent source of information for learning HOW to shave with SR, but a terrible source of information overload on all the detritus that goes with it. Believe it or not, you CAN over hone a razor.
I have around 50 stones or so. I must honestly admit that several of them were totally ill-advised purchases. My advice is to do some deep research on any stone before you plunk down the cash. Disappointment abounds when HAD knocks on your door.
Choose wisely.:chapeau
Yes there are many opinions around. I understand the sense behind it to really try and learn honing with a 8k stone before starting with other ones....
Otherway around, for a novice its not that easy to get a good edge with a 8k stone, especially as you wrote youll receive a kind of a harsh shave....
So why not using a finishing stone which is easy to use....
If you already have a well honed razor you did shave with at the beginning and then start honing and finish on a 8k and try your first shave youll be very highly disappointed...
And there are a lot of finishing stones around which do not have too high prizes (30-80USD)....
So its not too much money invested and you can try both ways paralell.
If you like to hone, buy them. If all you want is a shave, then get a small simple yet functional setup. Shaving/honing etc for me anyway is a hobby. WHen you think of it, we only need air, shelter, water and food. Everything else is unnecessary. I would advise anyone not to spend what they dont have for hones.
I must say enjoy sharpening every thing and the old course fine combo the old oil stones the fine side is a lot fine then the newer stuff.
So the old stuff is g great for getting a nice shine bevel on the blade. Which has become my go to bevel setters you can
sharpen a lot faster with oil to the point where one doesn't see the blade at every point in time. Then a hard piece
of Arkansas with a lot of cutting power then clear or a finer piece of hard Arkansas before that.
I fell my soft is a waste of time cause my hard sharpens a lot faster it seems.
To reply to doorsch the answer is one word, Challenge. Yes, I can get a 10, 12, 16, 20 or even a 30k stone and 'finish' my edges but I have learned nothing along the way in terms of really understanding what goes into getting to that stage. I'm not struggling to get there, I'm enjoying the fact of learning something new from the ground up. If there was an easy way out for everything we would all be millionaires with a large staff to do it for us.
I think that Razorfeld has made a very Valid Point!
I've posted time and time again that if I were to drop and break my Naniwa 12K I could live off of my Norton 8K edge for the rest of my life! However if I were to break my Norton I would eat peanut butter sandwiches day in and day out until I could save up enough money to replace it!
If you can't get a Good/Close/and COMFORTABLE shave off of a 8K edge then spending money on a higher grit stone is a waste of time and money!
I think that Glen hit the nail on the head when he said:
"No amount of money spent on a Stone can ever replace the value of the time it takes learning to use it properly"
Very Respectfully - Glen
I think Sergeant is suficiently at ease about the hones he needs I guess :hmmm:
about the collections this thread started with I have mixed feelings, on one hand I would love to have a collection like that :bow, but on the other hand, seeing those collections makes me feel like a sane and responsible consumer :cool:
Again not agreed, every move on any stone is something your learning from...it just depends on how much time you spend to learn...this has nothing to do with the kind of stone you use...
It sounds like learning with a 8k stone is the holy grail of honing and everything beyond on higher grits is not relevant or not a way which should be proceeded...
if you are comfortable with a 4/8k combination ....proceed that way its ok. For me personally i would miss a lot just staying there...and that doesnt mean that i did not learnt using a 8k as a finishing stage...but i do not like a shave that way in comparison as it comes of on some finishers i own...
And we all know that the most relevant part is setting the bevel on the stone < 1k
On most razors you can set a bevel on a 4k and if you can't THEN step back to a 1k. To tell everyone that you HAVE to use a 1K to set a bevel is just irresponsible. I get a kick out of reading where someone has honed a blade on stones that range from a 220 up to a 60K (?), either the blade was so crappy that the only way to get an edge was to go that extreme or their skill is that bad. My grandfather used to put an edge on a razor that would scare the hair off your face using just a couple Arkansas stones and I learned from him. I still contend that the best way to learn is with the fewest stones necessary and when you get proficient and consistent then start adding to your arsenal.
...nothing more useful to add here for me into this discussion :-)
Of course one doesn't need a large collection of stones to maintain a razor. There are a few points to consider here though before starting to ridicule or make assertions that anyone with more than a couple stones is a poorly skilled sharpener.
First, many here do sharpen more than razors. I use my stones on all sorts of tools, including kitchen and pocket knives, lathe cutting tools, razors, chisels, etc. Many guys with large collections of stones started with one or two, then decided it would be nice to get a coarser stone or two to get things done faster when starting with a severely dulled or damaged edge. Once you get the coarse stones you need to work your way back up in a progression if you want to finish the job quickly and correctly unless you have very good magnification to be able to see when all the scratches are removed from the coarser stones. Those random scratches can really harsh/ruin an edge, especially on a razor. Lastly, if those guys are anything like me, they always wonder if maybe a different type of stone would work better or faster than what they've got, so they decide to try one out. Then this happens again and again and before you know it you have a pile of stones. Some folks have favorite stones for favorite tasks so they can't or don't want to unload the old ones.
Oh, and here's my stash:
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...702_101911.jpg
eKretz, you have provided a sane and logical explanation for HAD. You are to be commended for a concise statement of reason, intent and usage of stones.:chapeau
eKretz - absolutely right: only imbeciles belittle others when they know next to nothing about them. Unfortunately, there are a lot of know-nothing imbeciles in the world.
My sharpening tasks involve a lot of different uses, such as:
razors of course,
rolls razor blades,
lathe tools for my mini lathe,
creation of tools such as punches,
maintaining leather punches, wad-sets, and rivet punches,
leather skiving machine blades - maintaining,
foredom specialist carving bits - maintaining,
hand graving tools - maintaining,
1940s Pfaff leather sewing machine - maintaining,
scalpels and other cutting edge tools for my lab - maintaining and creating,
leather head knives, half round knives, skiving knives - maintaining,
osborne and dixon thick leather plough gauges - maintaining blades,
leather lace making tools - maintaining edge,
woodworking chisels, jack plane, rabbet plane - maintaining blades,
leather pistol grip strap gauge tool - maintaining edge,
vintage pocket knives - recreating and maintaining blades,
etc, etc, etc,
Could anyone tell what I use them for by looking at them? No! Only a fool would succumb to such monumental self-deceit to believe that he did know.
It would take slightly less of a fool, but still a fool, to tell me that I have too many.
Have I got enough hones? No!
Why not? Because I need a varied set to cope with different types of steel and both modern and vintage tools (a lot need adapting/cutting/sizing, etc) and - most of all - I like them. Some people have a load of guns, or wrist watches, or cigarette lighters, etc, but do they need them? Of course not. But they enjoy them. There isn't much left in this world for me to enjoy, but this is one of them, and enjoy it I do!
I enjoy good workmanlike hones like chosera for doing what they do easily, fast and without major prep.
I enjoy naturals because they vary so much - in shape, colour, size, performance. I like to imagine the immense oceans of time it took to make them what they are, and the different ways they were formed.
I enjoy some because they look so fantastic - striped, marbled, coloured, glassy depths you can stare into, how some leave a lovely satin finish while others leave a shine that makes your heart sing.
I enjoy some for their rich history, and as I use them I can imagine old time craftsmen using them and imagine what their lives were like.
I enjoy some which are old and which have a question mark surrounding their origins - I can dream of the faraway places they came from, the trade routes, hot temperate climes so different from mine.
I enjoy old barber hones (naturals like eschers, coticules, etc as well as the small man-made variety) because they take me to a time when the barbershop was a hub, I like to imagine that and re-live stories I have been told, and wonder about the strange markings that adorn razors that were supposedly sharpened for them and why and how they came about...
There are so many reasons to enjoy them. Perhaps each hone has its own reason.
And - I have said it before but I'll say it again - I know how to use and get the best out of each and every hone I own, because I have taken the time to get intimately concerned with them and spent countless hours using them.
To be honest, if you can't set a bevel on a low grade stone like a 1k, then there is no need getting more hones, cause you are never going to cut the mustard. So, unless you enjoy them for other reasons then save your money.
As has been said many, many times before on this forum by luminaries like Glen, Lynn, Jimmy etc, you set the bevel by the 1k stone - after that all else is just refinement. There isn't much else to say other than that on the subject.
Like my sensible friend doorsch said above, I guess I have nothing more to add to this discussion. Just that if you like acquiring hones then get them and ignore everyone else. If you don't need them, don't get them, but don't knock others for doing so.
Regards,
Neil
Neil, if anyone thinks they can discount or challenge what you have said about hones, human nature, the separation of man and apes and the need to keep learning they are just mouthing off to hear themselves. Enough said, lets go on to any other topic, like a better chocolate cream frosting for that forbidden chocolate cake.:tu