I just got this in the mail today and I'm curious to know what vein it comes from. Seems like many on here are able to offer up a good guess as to what it might be. Attachment 184240Attachment 184241
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I just got this in the mail today and I'm curious to know what vein it comes from. Seems like many on here are able to offer up a good guess as to what it might be. Attachment 184240Attachment 184241
Not a coti expert myself, but that stone looks really nice!
To look at it you will have a fast cutting hone on slurry and fast on water. It seem to be a nice meld of garnet sizes.
I can suggest you look over at:
http://www.coticule.be/CSA.html
There are to be found open areas like the " Coticule Sharpening Academy" and "The Coticule Vault," and
the "Clinic/ Help Desk," where one of the Coticule experts and graders maintains a presence and he retains the whole site because...he likes Coticules. The site otherwise has been a read only for about 4 years now.
~Richard
I believe you got a winner!
When you say "fast cutting" do you mean, lower grit? Does this make it less of a polisher when used with just water if it is lower grit?
I could retype all of the information at the site I just gave you. I won't.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaveWares
It is a natural stone and all I can say is that a similar pattern has given me those results.
Those hones go back a very long time and I have many that do not have a name. The names were given by quarry workers to the hones cut from a particular drift/ vein in the mine.
As for which vein it comes from I have no clue, but fast cutting doesn't necessarily mean lower grit just able to remove metal faster. Certain coticules with slurry can remove metal pretty fast and as you dilute down to clear water it slows down. Yours is a combo so you could probably utilize both sides in a honing progression is you wanted. Here is a link that describes different veins. http://www.coticule.be/the-cafeteria/topic/1727.html
If it is a coticule mined at Ardennes Coticule there is info on what vein the coticules harvested there are from. If it is a vintage piece there is no telling. The various mines gave different veins names specific to their own mine. More to facilitate work assignments, records of quantity harvested over time.
Back in those days a guy went to a barber supply or a hardware store, paid the $2.50 for the stone, and didn't even ask what vein it came out of. It is nice to know, if you can get the info, but I don't even look to see what they say the stone cuts like. I put a razor on it and see what it cuts like on my kitchen counter. :gl:
It is an Ardennes that I bought from Fendrihan. It has the letters ZoCc (or ZoLc?) on it, which I've never seen before.
Just curious how many cotis have you seen? Put your hands on? personally own??Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaveWares
Warning dont get the coti guys going, they have many, any they have weighed in.
Put razor to stone and then we can talk. Or send it to me , I will test it for you and send it back with Superduper written across the whole thing.
Speaking as a proud coti guy you got a good one. But it has its own personallity. You might want to give her a name, and spend some time getting to know her.
In the Library there are extensive articles on the time proven ways to get repeatable results. I still havent said anything yet, each one has to be unlocked.
From the pictures you havent even lapped it yet. Just an observation.
BUT you did good
Maurice from Ardennes wrote on one I bought . It really helps with the lapping. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by ultrasoundguy2003
This is the first coticule I've seen and touched in person. I've only seen them on the interwebs.Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrasoundguy2003
Since this is a natural combination with a gradual transition between the yellow and blue layer it could be most probably a La Grise layer. But also some more exotic layer is possible. The transition reminds me somehow on a La Veine aux clous I have seen in Henk Bos great essay on coticules you can find here:
http://bosq.home.xs4all.nl/info%2020...whetstones.pdf
The Veine aux clous you will find on page 38.
Since this layer is very rare, the chance might be not very high, that you really scored an example.
But keep in mind, nobody can really determine a layer by a photo. This is only guessing!
I think I still have about 30 coticules. Most are natural combo layer stones and I don't know what vein any of them came from. I care more that I ended that sentence with a preposition than I care about individual veins or mines.
I bought a 4x11 natural combo coticule from Ardennes several years ago for $150 before they ever bothered to even make note of the vein. It did not matter to the guy at Ardennes any more than it mattered to me. I asked for a relatively fine and fast workhorse and I'm happy with what he sold to me.
Have fun playing with your rock.
This is your photo from 5 or 6 years ago ........... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
Attachment 184306
It's funny how you can find that photo so fast!
I have not stacked them since that time and don't think I will again without further culling.
Anyway, the Ardennes hone is on the bottom. Maybe I should name it
La Rock
or
La Rockette
or maybe
Rodney
He still don't get no respect!
When you 'go advanced', click on 'manage attachments', maximize the pop-up, then scroll through all of the photos you've ever posted in the past. They are there. I saved your photo when you posted it years ago. So finding it only took a few minutes, just like these that I posted a few years back ;Quote:
It's funny how you can find that photo so fast!
Attachment 184308Attachment 184309
The one on the extreme right is my La Veinette kosher. Rob or Maurice marked it so on the top honing surface in pencil. I wrote it on the side so I'd remember what it was. Good hone.
How long ago did you get it?
Does anyone have any idea how long they have been designating the individual veins on their hones?
I got it in the mail yesterday from Fendrihan. It came without the wooden case and the letters ZoCc on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
Ron, this was something Bart popularized some years ago. When he had his website going there were reviews of performance based on the specific veins the hones were harvested from. The mine gives these names to specific veins to keep track of who is working where, how much product is still available in a given area of the mine. It became a marketing device after the Bartmeister got hold of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
That is exactly what I had assumed but did not want to declare it without any knowledge (for once).
I've always been fascinated with coticules but did not approach 1% of what Bart has done with his.
I've had about six Coticules and still own two, they have all been good to excellent finishers. Of my two best ones, one was very similar looking to yours, the other is very deep yellow. I've only seen one bad finishing Coticule (that a friend has locally) and it was very soft and self slurried. I've never payed attention to the particular vein myself and only worry if they work or not
Just and observation Shavewares. Look closely at all the pictures posted, do you see a common thread, one thing that most of those stones have in common? They are lapped. This is your next step for your stone. Do you have a DMT Coarse 325 hint hint.
Also where do you live? Ask for a Mentor. Just a suggestion.
Do you see how many coticules are in just one members hands?? They are that much fun. Now you need to dial yours in, ready?
I guess we should ask do you want help or do you have this all under control from this point forward?
One last word of advise, look at the join dates of the members with many coticules. That is but the tip of the ice-burg. I have heard tell that some members here have been using these stones since 1970s. Many of the questions you have yet to ask ,they have answered many times already and those posts are here in the library.You have probably already been there, if not it is a great place to spend considerable amount of time. Geezers link earlier is a good summary that is straight forward. Just a suggestion and observation. I want you to be successful with this stone and with wet shaving. Good luck
I just bought some 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper to lap it. Would lapping it give us a much better idea of what kind of stone it is?
I think most of the time looking at the side of the stone, if it is a natural, not a glued coticule, is how to tell. OTOH, some of the named veins are of a particular hue, or have some other characteristic, mangnese deposits and such. Bottom line is that call it what you want to, it is going to work however it works. If you're fortunate, it will be fast but fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaveWares
BTW, most of us use diamond plates @ 325 grit, and some go on up to higher grits after the initial flattening. A coticule is usually soft enough for 600 to work quick enough. The only thing is, 325 would work faster.
We know what it is . Its the real deal. Now you must get it ready for use. Lapping is code for rounding the corners and edges. The BEST way to do that is with a DMT 325 plate. You have an expensive valuable tool. Its a rough diamond as it sits. It needs to be lapped (polished). to sparkle. Amazon carries them.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaveWares
The importance of a DMT plate is that its a TRUE square plane to use to ensure a flat surface. Do you want a wavy out of square surface to hone on?
Sorry that was meant to be rhetorical.
We cant say it any more clearly than this. A foundation must be square for the house to be solid. Your corner stone needs to be squared. If the foundation isnt square by the time you build to the roof the house may well fall.
A Cadillac is a Cadillac what body-style doesn't matter when we are dealing with the engine right know. Paint is an after thought right now . You have a Cadillac , Now lets get it on the road. In a good way.
Here is a link to amazon plates
http://www.amazon.com/DMT-D8C-Dia-Sh...g+plate+coarse
I couldn't afford the diamond plates, so I lapped it just now with 600 grit wet sandpaper on top of my kitchen counter. I was surprised at how fast the pencil marks went away and the grain of the stone really pops out, it looks like a cross-cut of oak-wood. As to if its perfectly flat? I went through 3 sheets on the yellow side and 2 sheets on the purple side. Also, chamfered the sides.
That looks like a coticule to me, most likely from Belgium.
As you are no doubt aware, some people (who are probably infinitely smarter than I) attribute the natural variation in these natural stones to veins in the mine, much in the way they do with Japanese naturals. However, I am a curmudgonly sod stuck in my ways, and to me there are two kinds of Belgian stone: the blue, and the coticule.
As such I never have any problems identifying coticules :D
James.
Having used a wide variety of recently harvested, and vintage coticules, I can say without hesitation, that the varicose vein is the most common. :p
I disagree about a couple things here. First, I am a big fan of diamond plates. In fact, I think I have 8 of them. However, I don't think they are necessary for everyone. It depends on what other hones you have or plan to have. In my opinion a coticule by itself has no need for a diamond plate. It is easy to use sandpaper both to lap it flat and to round over the edges.Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrasoundguy2003
Unlike most synthetics, natural coticules do not need to have their surfaces refreshed because they constantly self renew. They only need to be lapped to keep them flat and they do not need to be lapped very often. Sandpaper on a countertop is perfectly adequate for the task.
Regarding rounding over, or chamfering, the edges, I only care about the long edges. Those are the only edges that are involved with honing. Neither the corners nor the short edges (the ends of the hone) should have the blade near them. For that reason I see no need to chamfer those ends or corners.
Also, there is no need to "polish" the surface of the coticule because of that same self renewing property of the coticule.
I really believe that sandpaper is sufficient for a coticule.
That's where they harvest the BBW's right? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
Hey man. What's wrong with the BBW's?
Oh that is so bad!Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaveWares
:bow
Oh just wait...........Jimbo is coming! :rofl2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
Hey I have no idea what you are talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
James.
Oh.........HI, Jimbo! Nice to see ya! Bit of a prank....Could not hold onto it forever, you know! :D
They ain't so bad, now! Mostly Pooftas, tho.
Regards,
Bruce
The folks at Ardennes say it is a La Grise.
Should I get a CNAT/C12K to follow it up as a finisher or just finish with the La Grise?
Try it and see, I've gotten great edges straight off a Coticule. If it's not quite there, a few laps on CrOx will probably do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaveWares
And that nice Latneuse was from Burton, right ?Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
Oh. That Burton hybrid is the stuff my dreams are made of.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
