Translucents Arkansas One Stone Honing !!!

Hello everybody,


I have been for along time silent viewer of SRP and B&B, and I really appreciated the knowledge that you guys provide in this forum...so I hope that you accept my first post here.

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I don't know if this is new or I'm repeating someone's discovery, anyway while I'm playing with my vintage Translucent Arkansas the other day I tried a small pocket Hard Arkansas stone to produce a slurry on the Translucent Arkansas... which did yield a good amount of slurry and accelerated the stone speed 10 times at least...

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Then I started to experiment with different types of slurry from different stones Eschers, Coticule, BBW Cnat and whatever else I had.

The results were astonishing, I was able to get better edges from all the stones using their slurry on the Translucent Arkansas Hone.

I can set the bevel on a razor and take it up to shave ready using Coticule slurry in half the time that I take using Coticule stone, no dilution of slurry or nothing, I try only to maintain the slurry from drying out by adding water as needed.


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The most beautiful thing about this method is it really helps to know which stone is finer than the other.... now I know which of my Coticules is finer, I also found that a vintage BBW that a had is finer than some of my Coticules, I also divorced that one of my Coticule slurry stones (recently mined) is as fine as an Escher hone.
Even it does help with the Eschers where is really hard to spots the difference between them since they are all have a consistent quality, I did find that the finest Escher hone that I have is a blue green one.
The results using this method are very consistent, even under the microscope which help me a lot in comparing the edges.
The method is very simple
1. I spray water on the Translucent Arkansas the I rub the selected stone to produce slurry.

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2. I starts with fair amount of pressure if I want to set the bevel, moderate pressure if I want to remove micro chips, or light pressure for touch up .
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3.after I finish I spray water on the Translucent Arkansas then I brush it with a small brush that I got from Beauty Supplies Shop finally I wipe the stone.

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I tried to produce slurry using Hard True Arkansas, but without any luck the stone is to hard

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I have a microscope but the photo quality of it camara is very poor thats way i didn't post comparison pics

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( x160 )



I know that this method is not orthodox by any means , but it does a very good job.... also you can use a lot of pressure without harming the hone while setting the bevel, but you need to be aware that you might miss up the razors grind.

I hope this does help someone to see new potentials for their Translucent Arkansas.






Thanks for everyone, and sorry for my bad English :)

I do the same thing - experimenting with diferent sluryes on hard or medium stone in hardness . to make it work in a wider range . Man you understand so many things this way . IT is a slower , but sure way to geometrycaly perfect . crisp edge .
Well for finishing the thuringian base with thiri slurry is unbeatable i think :w

Many of us hereabouts have used this method using different base stones with assorted slurry. It is a really fun way to hone, and you're right in that it really does help you to learn the base stone, and what can be done with different finishers. One of my favorite's was a Translucent Ark with Escher slurry... Here's a great thread from a few years back on this method...

http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...lynn-glen.html

Kind of goes against all I have been reading about the arks, thought they were a final finisher requiring a lot of burnishing and a lot of laps. If it just a base for slurry, couldn't you use a piece of granite or glass?
And Wolfpack34, I am experimenting with the lead dressed strop. Found that interesting.

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Originally Posted by Grazor

Kind of goes against all I have been reading about the arks, thought they were a final finisher requiring a lot of burnishing and a lot of laps. If it just a base for slurry, couldn't you use a piece of granite or glass?
And Wolfpack34, I am experimenting with the lead dressed strop. Found that interesting.

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He uses the slurry for the sharpening and refining and then just the plain arkie for finishing I assume.

I tried the same thing when I got my trans ark and it is fun. It makes the slurry from any stone cut faster. I don't do it all the time but it is fun to mess around and definitely does not degrade the edge.

I see some of the Eschers you have on ebay right now, pretty nice stones.

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Originally Posted by Grazor

, I am experimenting with the lead dressed strop. Found that interesting.

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Been trying that on a Roo strop myself, very interesting, been using Bullet lead


To the OP,,
You can also reverse the process and use an Arkie to raise a slurry on most any water stone, tons of fun playing in the mud :p

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Been trying that on a Roo strop myself, very interesting, been using Bullet lead

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Made a Roo strop in the weekend specifically to try the lead...:shrug:...

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Originally Posted by RusenBG

I do the same thing - experimenting with diferent sluryes on hard or medium stone in hardness . to make it work in a wider range . Man you understand so many things this way . IT is a slower , but sure way to geometrycaly perfect . crisp edge .
Well for finishing the thuringian base with thiri slurry is unbeatable i think :w

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I'm a Thuringian addict myself in my opinion they are the easiest and the finest hone to use although i haven’t tried any Jnats yet, for me using my Translucent Arkansas as a base have lead me to a butter results maybe because the Translucent Arkansas will not release new slurry and since it's a hard base the slurry particles will crush themselves to smaller particles, but I don't really know.

Thanks

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Originally Posted by Wolfpack34

Many of us hereabouts have used this method using different base stones with assorted slurry. It is a really fun way to hone, and you're right in that it really does help you to learn the base stone, and what can be done with different finishers. One of my favorite's was a Translucent Ark with Escher slurry... Here's a great thread from a few years back on this method...

http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...lynn-glen.html

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Thanks for sharing this great post :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grazor

Kind of goes against all I have been reading about the arks, thought they were a final finisher requiring a lot of burnishing and a lot of laps. If it just a base for slurry, couldn't you use a piece of granite or glass?
And Wolfpack34, I am experimenting with the lead dressed strop. Found that interesting.

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Well I think you could get one and start experimenting with :) this particular stone I tried to finish a Filly on it with 400-500 X strokes it did make a big transformation for the edge under the microscope but I couldn’t notice any swirf :shrug:

About using granite or glass as base I can tell you about my experience with granite since I have tried it and still using it. you can use different slurry stones with granite or even use a diamond plate to raise slurry from the granite itself (which is my preference, it can reach 10K + in my opinion), the down side with using the granite is that you need to maintain a ton of slurry to avoid chipping the edge, what causes the chips is the Quartz which is embedded in the granite in a large particle size as you can see, its harder than steel and in you can feel the increase of resistance once your blade passes one.

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So by maintaining a high volume of slurry and light pressure you will avoid chipping the edge. If you are a knife guy granite is a very cheap and effective knife hone from setting the bevel to shave-sharp in one stone and very fast too if used with slurry, since a few microchips won’t affect the knife unless if you're shaving with it :rofl2:

I have not tried glass yet, the only challenge in my mind now is raising a slurry on the smooth surface of the glass I can use diamond plate to do so but the slurry particles will become bigger, interesting idea

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Originally Posted by DireStraights

He uses the slurry for the sharpening and refining and then just the plain arkie for finishing I assume.

I tried the same thing when I got my trans ark and it is fun. It makes the slurry from any stone cut faster. I don't do it all the time but it is fun to mess around and definitely does not degrade the edge.

I see some of the Eschers you have on ebay right now, pretty nice stones.

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Actually, I finish using slurry the same started with, but the finishing pressure will be the very minimum that I can maintain the razor straight along the stone...

Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Been trying that on a Roo strop myself, very interesting, been using Bullet lead


To the OP,,
You can also reverse the process and use an Arkie to raise a slurry on most any water stone, tons of fun playing in the mud :p

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Thanks Glen, I gained a lot of my honing knowledge from your videos, but man try to get the camera closer to the stone, it will benefit us a lot especially with seeing the different strokes. About reversing process, well what you're seeing now is the reverse of what I started with initially :)

It's fairly common for tool honers to slurry their fine ark stones. At least the newer honing tutorials often advocate it. A hard ark loaded with its own particles is a very fast cutting stone so long as those particles remain on the stone.

This is larry williams, a fairly well known planemaker in the woodworking community. He likes to slurry his oilstones. I don't necessarily, but it's just personal preference. I do like to slurry a soft ark from time to time to make it a fast bevel setter (and it is just that, a very fast bevel setter when slurried).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0ClNp_Eknw

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Originally Posted by DaveW

It's fairly common for tool honers to slurry their fine ark stones. At least the newer honing tutorials often advocate it. A hard ark loaded with its own particles is a very fast cutting stone so long as those particles remain on the stone.

This is larry williams, a fairly well known planemaker in the woodworking community. He likes to slurry his oilstones. I don't necessarily, but it's just personal preference. I do like to slurry a soft ark from time to time to make it a fast bevel setter (and it is just that, a very fast bevel setter when slurried).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0ClNp_Eknw

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Hello Dave

I agree with you about the speed of an Arkansas stone with it's own slurry, but the problem is when you use the diamond plate to produce slurry you leave the surface of the Arkansas with the scratches from the diamond grit which may reduce the finess of the stone.

Dave I know from your YouTube channel that you are using Jasper for finishing a razor, have you tried to raise a slurry on it .... also can you tell me where I can get it.

Thanks

I think that's a problem, too. We can quickly get excessive with stones if we want to - the obvious easy answer to me is one of two things:
1) get a second stone (that's not cheap in a full sized hard arkansas)
2) use something else as slurry on the stone, like oiled slurry off of a hone slate

I prefer not to ever agitate anything more fine than a washita stone, that and stones below can do metal removal, and then a well settled arkansas stone will remove high points but stall once the surface is uniform, which is a nice thing.

I use the jasper in the video as insurance, because I was intentionally using random strokes and sloppiness to see if the razor would still come out OK. I could have also just taken 100 finish laps on the black ark and gotten to the same place.

Jasper slurry is fine, but aggressive, and the stone is more sensitive to having scratch marks in it than even an arkansas. It cuts slower than an ark when it's settled in, too.

You'll have to find it on ebay, but be prepared to get the stone cutter's marks off. I would look for Biggs Jasper or Owyhee jasper (and also use the words large slab, because most of it is slabbed for jewelry and some of the pieces are very small). You should be able to find a slice of it 1/4th inch thick for about 10 bucks if you have some patience. Shipping will be a bigger problem than the price. It is the hardest natural stone that I have seen that has suitably small particles, which makes it a good candidate for burnishing like I used it, and it's not pressure sensitive when burnishing (it'll yield a fine edge no matter what). I'd save the slurrying for other stones, though, or use slurry from a softer stone on it.

They work well on water, too, so if you have hone slates that you only use with water, you could slurry something like a thuri slurry stone and do well with it.

I too have experimented with slurries with translucent and surgical black for years with good result from Coticules and Thüringen’s. I have also had good results from a natural Naugra progression on arks.

Using glass is just using the slurry by itself much like honing on the stone itself. Lap the glass with a Diamond plate to a flat frosted surface to hold the slurry better.
Using the slurry on a stone creates a synergistic effect from both grits.

Sometimes it works and sometimes not, as Ark slurry, does not break down like softer slurry. Much of the performance from slurry comes from many laps, breaking the slurry down further with each lap, as old time coticule & JNat users know well.

Very nice collection of stone by the way, nice translucent.

I've used a coticule slurry to do a diluticot on a black arkansas with really nice results.

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Originally Posted by DaveW

I think that's a problem, too. We can quickly get excessive with stones if we want to - the obvious easy answer to me is one of two things:
1) get a second stone (that's not cheap in a full sized hard arkansas)
2) use something else as slurry on the stone, like oiled slurry off of a hone slate

I prefer not to ever agitate anything more fine than a washita stone, that and stones below can do metal removal, and then a well settled arkansas stone will remove high points but stall once the surface is uniform, which is a nice thing.

I use the jasper in the video as insurance, because I was intentionally using random strokes and sloppiness to see if the razor would still come out OK. I could have also just taken 100 finish laps on the black ark and gotten to the same place.

Jasper slurry is fine, but aggressive, and the stone is more sensitive to having scratch marks in it than even an arkansas. It cuts slower than an ark when it's settled in, too.

You'll have to find it on ebay, but be prepared to get the stone cutter's marks off. I would look for Biggs Jasper or Owyhee jasper (and also use the words large slab, because most of it is slabbed for jewelry and some of the pieces are very small). You should be able to find a slice of it 1/4th inch thick for about 10 bucks if you have some patience. Shipping will be a bigger problem than the price. It is the hardest natural stone that I have seen that has suitably small particles, which makes it a good candidate for burnishing like I used it, and it's not pressure sensitive when burnishing (it'll yield a fine edge no matter what). I'd save the slurrying for other stones, though, or use slurry from a softer stone on it.

They work well on water, too, so if you have hone slates that you only use with water, you could slurry something like a thuri slurry stone and do well with it.

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Thanks Dave for sharing your experience, do you think it is imported to find a uniformed Jasper slab or the discolouration does not matter ?

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

I too have experimented with slurries with translucent and surgical black for years with gSometimes it works and sometimes not, as Ark slurry, does not break down like softer slurry. Much of the performance from slurry comes from many laps, breaking the slurry down further with each lap, as old time coticule & JNat users know well.
.

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Exactly, this is what I thought is the main reason for the enhanced performance.

I'm tempted to try out the black Arkansas everybody is talking about it, but dans one is a bit pricy.

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Originally Posted by AljuwaiedAK

Thanks Dave for sharing your experience, do you think it is imported to find a uniformed Jasper slab or the discolouration does not matter ?

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Uniform and boring looking makes for a better hone. The really interesting looking ones can have rougher spots. That's what engravers tell me, and they love very hard and very fine hones.

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Originally Posted by Wid

I've used a coticule slurry to do a diluticot on a black arkansas with really nice results.

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try a Jnat or Thuringians slurry and you will see amazing results, since the Garnets ( coticule cutting agent ) particles are to hard to break down or very slow to break

i just bought a set of 9 natural slurry stones and starting testing them last week, i shall post my findings sone :D

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the nakayama one is a really fine one, but you need to wait for results.

thanks

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Originally Posted by DaveW

Uniform and boring looking makes for a better hone. The really interesting looking ones can have rougher spots. That's what engravers tell me, and they love very hard and very fine hones.

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I have my eyes on couple of uniformed slabs listed on eBay, I will check with the sellers to see if one agrees to cut it for me since they are non-rectangular shaped... i shall post it here if i managed to get one.


thanks again JasperMan:tu:tu