Thread: English Hone ID

Hello gentlemen.

I just bought this fine hone from the bay. It was simply listed oilstone. I thought it was a Charnley Forest, but when I cleaned it up and lapped it I could see I wasn't.

It got the right colours but it's a soft hone, a kind of slate. It feels like my coticules, but don't self slurry at all. The slury looks just like my Eschers.

It's a finisher, but not the same high end as a thüringian.

There is a label but it's hard to read. What I can read says:

Made in England
Wm. Marple .......
.....ld end
S....... Brand
..........tools

I do hope somebody can help.

Hi Kristian this mostly resamples a Llyn Idwal Stone on the first look, as mentioned probably a Charnley....

I will add some pics later of some typical Idwal pattering....

Can you add some macro/detail shots of the surface ?

It's a soft hone... Not hard at all...

Here are some pics of Idwall Stones, the left one shows comparable properties but seems also to be more a slate type stone....

The Llyn Idwall (Novaculite of Kirwan) is as the name states a Novaculite Type Stone. The stone is quite brittle and has a flakey look a like on certain areas.



Here you can see the flaking:


Thats how the slurry looks, these stones do not autoslurry. The slurry was created with a DMT 1200 and took around 25 laps.



Wm Marples & Sons. Seems to be an old UK tool maker/trader...they had the Shamrock Brand Logo. Check, here are some comparable labels talking about color and writing like the one on your box
http://www.oldtools.co.uk/tools/Marples.html

Originally Posted by doorsch

Here are some pics of Idwall Stones, the left one shows comparable properties but seems also to be more a slate type stone....

The Llyn Idwall (Novaculite of Kirwan) is as the name states a Novaculite Type Stone. The stone is quite brittle and has a flakey look a like on certain areas.



Here you can see the flaking:


Thats how the slurry looks, these stones do not autoslurry. The slurry was created with a DMT 1200 and took around 25 laps.



Wm Marples & Sons. Seems to be an old UK tool maker/trader...they had the Shamrock Brand Logo. Check, here are some comparable labels talking about color and writing like the one on your box
http://www.oldtools.co.uk/tools/Marples.html

Amazing. It's the same label. Fantastic that only minutes after a question is asked highly competent answers appear. Will still need a positive ID but it looks like a unknown hone. Interesting.

Very interesting
I have stone that looks the same. And it's quite different from my 8 LI and 6 CF.
It's like LM, but a little bit faster and it has different behavior while sharpening.
Nice honest worker.

Could you post a bigger image with label?

I have a few that are similar, but I do not know for definite what they are:



The one laying vertically on the far left, the one partially under the bottom wooden paddle, and the one on the paddle itself.

All appear to be very soft. The one just under the paddle gives a so-so finish while the other two (vintage) hones give a much more refined edge to the razor. The one on the paddle seems to be the finest. It produces a creamy slurry with barely a hint of green.

None of them appear to novaculites, nor very highly indurated slate. They do appear to have the qualities of certain slate honestones like thuringians, but obviously they are not thuringians.

Lord knows what they are!

Regards,
Neil

Here's a couple of closeup shots. One of the surface and on of the label.

That looks like William Marples...now known as Marples tools I believe under that it says Sheffield, Eng..... the last phrase if its like lots of marples stickers is well made tools

William Marples & Sons worked out of the Hibernia Works Sheffield, the company being founded in 1828 (although his father, also William Marples, was working with William junior in the early 1820s.

The company moved a couple of times, ending up in Westfield Terrace, Sheffield, for over a hundred years. In 1860 William junior's sons became partners, the firm now being Wm Marples & Sons.

This gives us a date to investigate what was on offer by people serving the edged tool and grinding trades. I cn't find a catalogue by Marples, but I have found one by a prolific hone, etc, supplier of c, 1890 - A. B. Salmen. Their standard stones, according to their own literature of the time has this description:

"Importer & quarrier. Hones, oilstones, grindstones, scythestones &c, carpenters tool & hand basket importer. Office 1 Castle St. Houndsditch. E.C. Steam works, Salmen St. South Grove, Mile End, London. E. ... [On the reverse] Turkey oilstones, Arkansa ... Water of Ayr stone, Ragstones, Scythe stones, Devon batts, Indian pond stones. Yellow Lake hones, German ... Blue & grey stone slips, Gold testing stones, Clearing stones and curriers' blocks, Turkey, Arkansa & Putty powder, Holy stones, Circular stones, all kinds. Bilston, Blue grit, Newcastle, Yorkshire and other grindstones, also mounted in Iron and Wooden troughs. Importers of tool and painters' baskets".

None of those sound that promising, but most suppliers also imported from the continent and applied their own marks, such as this Salmen branded Belgian coticule:



Not very helpful I know, but at least it shows what we could expect to be on offer hone-wise at the time.

Regards,
Neil