KAI Hira Toishi 3000stone???

[RusenBG]

Did someone try this stonee wett ,is it rebranded is it soft , fast , feedbback ect.?
Deespertly need synthetic 3-4 K level and one 5-6 after.Thinking to buy 1 .Any opinions about it.Canot find review -where is made , how behaives.

http://www.amazon.com/Toishi-Sharpen.../dp/B000RVFAO8

[mainaman]

Kai does not make stones so it is a rebranded one. Who makes them I do not know.
Check out Ebay for shapton pro 2k (if you have more funds 3k Super stone) and 5k Shapton Pro, you can get them at very good prices straight from Japan. I personally like the 3k SS over the 2k Spaton Pro, the finish is more even to my eye.
It will be a lot less hassle than getting stones from US, the shipping will be too expensive.

[RusenBG]

They sell them in Bulgaria , here i can gett them easily for 30 Euro .I canot order from Japan ,dont know how.

[DaveW]

They look like the white corundum or white alumina, whatever it is, that is being sold as chinese stones uusharp. It could just be a coincidence, but I am a woodworker so I have bought a lot of stones in the 400-5000 range just on experiment, probably 50.

Two of them were stones from china that looked like that, looked decent, and were junk in use. They self slurried awful, and just made a mess everywhere.

For razors in a synthetic, you want something with some kind of alumina (not silicon carbide, unless you're going to be sharpening razors made out of powder stainless or something), and it doesn't have to be special. The range you're shopping in (mid level stones) always has a void of things people are satisfied with because people are wowed only by fast or fine, but a stone in the middle of that is seen as mediocre, despite its usefulness in a progression (see reviews on chosera 5k and shapton 5k, both leave people saying "not as good as their other stones").

At any rate, I think you should visit toolsfromjapan.com and sift through the stones and then come back and ask about specific stones. If you get one of the chinese origin alumina or silicon carbide stones,....well, they just don't have the process down yet and the binder is no good.

A 4/8 norton may also be what you need. Generally, you'll not need what's marketed as a 3 or 4 k stone and then another stone before a finisher simply because those stones don't have linear particle sizes. For instance, Shapton's 5k has a 3 micron particle. The 8k has 2, and the 12k has just over 1. The 1k has something on the order of 14 and the 2k 7. Chosera's range is even narrower, where the 3k is a 4 micron stone, and the 5k is 3 micron. They are too close together and you can go from a 3 or 4 micron stone to finisher no problem.

I hate to say it (because of price), but I've liked the chosera 3k better than any mid grit stone I've tried, but you can get by with any of them in a progression of three stones (bevel setter, mid stone, finish stone) if you're sharpening razors. The virtues of the cho 3k applies mostly to tools.

[RusenBG]

Usualy i hone in bevel setter from 400 - 600 ,have a 600 Diamont plate ,my favourite 800 then 1200 Makitta stone - pretty amazing ,fast stone. After i have 2 synthetic stones hard as hell and slow. In the 2 -3 k level i haxe thoose 2 and i quick sllaatte that ii collect - verry fast on slurry .
We are in 55-6 k range , the razor sshaves hair efortless and bite the skin furiously .You can shave your worst enemy like this .
I began refining with a BBW and coty ,have a cretan thatt can play both pre and finisher ,dragonn tongue and bunch more natturals.
The problem my Sir is that reseenntly flood a lot razors and those made from 62 + make me look like a fool -rusians and some Solingens. Ii hone for hours to make the Edge.
i enjoy honning them butt didnt have so much time so ineed agressivee ,fast stoner in the 2 middle points also .
i recently order Taidea 8k and 1 month still waiting for delivery .Soft or not ,but what we do on the coti ,so i think that will do the job done.
I love honing hours but i dont have the time so i need the stones .Even as we speek some of them are waiting .

[DaveW]

That strikes me as strange (the time) because it generally takes me about 15-20 minutes to set up a razor (including bevel set) on three oilstones. (or three synthetics, or three pretty much anything).

I'm not sure what you'll gain by going through twice as many stones.

[RusenBG]

Im not using them at time . There are razors and razors ,some are very hard to hone . When you grind down heavily chiped edge 3mm from the width and it is dull as spoon let see how you hone it for 20 min. 20 min is only thuringian finishing time ,dilutting the slurry . Oilstones are mind to be ussed with big presure - i dont do it with my razors.
Some youtube clips for bevell setting or bevell resetting , straightening geometry on hi tech hones -Chosera ect. are 12 to 18 min withowt stone soaking and other things.
Tell me aggain for the 15 min, it is not posible if you ask me and it is not a race ,i permanently check the razors state.It is important nott only sarpening the edge also refining to miror shiny for a comfort shave and durable edge.
I ask did someone use this stone houping to understand something about it ,how performs, im not intresting in razor honing races

[DaveW]

Well, I think you're solving problems you don't have. If you have dull razors because you honed the entire bevel off, you need a better coarse stone.

You don't have to use oilstones with a great amount of pressure, you need to slurry them if you want them to cut quickly. I stand by my comment, I'd have a finished razor in 20 minutes with no bevel at all, and without it being misshapen due to pressure. I may add an india stone to start if that were the case.

A razor that I spend 20 minutes on from a bevel reset is ready for several hundred shaves. I'm not trying to do anything other than question why any of this has anything to do with using two intermediate stones instead of one, and suggest that two intermediate stones offer no benefit over one.

As for the rest of the stuff, I can't vouch for honing videos that show someone working 15 minutes on one stone on a razor other than to suggest that it will do nothing to add sharpness over a third of that amount. Some people wear belt and suspenders at the same time, I guess, but I would bet that a practicing barber in 1900 would never spend 20 minutes on a single finishing hone (and that's who would've honed a razor for someone in need of assistance).

I think at this point, unless you have no stones in the 2-5k range, that you are not going to get further along by buying more stones. Just my opinion, nobody has to agree.

[RusenBG]

Ok Dave ,my frend i can only respect you if you can hone for a20 min. Unfortunately i am only beginer and i have hone just 50 maybe 55 blades and im not such experienced and skilled honer as some of you are . It is easy on thelower gritt stones but iin 5k up range we have tto be carefull-1 mistake degrade the edge and bring us to 1500 gritt again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR4DctzQ2kY

Here is one of the best ,using maybe the fastest stone .14 min per a stone , 4 stones and strop -1 hour 10 min rought for expert levell prohoner and super hones .So the simple math is 4x14 and 10 more 1hour 10 min without prep and tests .
The trread is because my naturals and synth are slow and i am watching to buy a dascent ,fast 2 stones in the midle 3-4k and 5-6k at a good prise ,here in Bulgaria Eastern Europe.
Honing is dzen ,it is like the sex-somethimes ,if you do it fast you can miss the deep pleasure from it

[DaveW]

Honing and sex are not remotely similar.

It would probably be helpful for lynn to put up a string of doing five razors in a row that need a bevel set, and without talking. I'll bet the action in those videos would take about 15 minutes. Most of the video you linked is talking.

Any mistakes that you make that damage an edge on anything other than a very coarse stone will disappear soon. Some things (like microchipping) may happen by chance if you have a razor and stone that don't like each other, but errant strokes from you will disappear.