Shoubudani type 100 problems

Hi guys,

I have problem to pass HHT test with shoubudani type 100.

My progression is
1. Chosera 1k
2. Norton 4k
3. Norton 8k
4. Naniwa SS12k
5. Shoubudani type 100

After Naniwa SS12k I pass HHT test without any problems (no stroping) but when I use Shoubudani I can't pass HHT test anymore. Maybe HHT1.

Do you have any idea why?

I tray to use it with heavy slurry with nagura stone, with light slurry with water only... Same problem always.

Thanks a lot for your help.
Cheers,
Davor

EDIT
some pictures of my shoubudani and nagura stone
http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/...psk46xdays.jpg
http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/...psn2ge5xd4.jpg
http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/...pskrdjo53l.jpg

All stones are lapped with Atoma 400.

Did you strop after the Shobudani ?
There is a certain point in the honing progression where the HHT of the stones gets worse then before....

For me counts the result after the last stone and stropping....besides we know that the HHT is an indicator but not the all over thing....

How was the shave? Did you try ?

Your 12k is a finisher. The Jnat your using is not going to increase the level of sharpness. In fact, I would suggest that it may step the edge back a little from that of the 12k. My suggestion is to go to the Jnat after 8k. See how you like the edge and decide if you want to use it or your 12k. But I don't think you'll benefit much from combining the two stones. Pick one and decide how you like the finish.

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Originally Posted by doorsch

Did you strop after the Shobudani ?
There is a certain point in the honing progression where the HHT of the stones gets worse then before....

For me counts the result after the last stone and stropping....besides we know that the HHT is an indicator but not the all over thing....

How was the shave? Did you try ?

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After stroping I can pas HTT and shave was nice. But this is something what bother me so I decide to ask more experienced sirs.

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Originally Posted by OCDshaver

Your 12k is a finisher. The Jnat your using is not going to increase the level of sharpness. In fact, I would suggest that it may step the edge back a little from that of the 12k. My suggestion is to go to the Jnat after 8k. See how you like the edge and decide if you want to use it or your 12k. But I don't think you'll benefit much from combining the two stones. Pick one and decide how you like the finish.

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Good point. I didn't try to use him directly after 8k. Will try and let you know. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by davorvfr

Good point. I didn't try to use him directly after 8k. Will try and let you know. Thanks.

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I have a type 100. Its a nice little stone and really gives you bang for the buck. And the edge from it is really nice. But if you want to bring your edge further than your 12k is capable, you might want to consider a Suehiro 20k. 8k, 12k, 20k....that would work nicely. In fact that's how I finish my razors. But the type 100 is capable of giving you a very nice edge.

Natural stone particles leave more stuff on the edge that needs to come off with the strop. It's true with razors, knives, tools, etc. They gain more from the use of a strop than does an edge with very deep narrow grooves.

I don't ever HHT a razor straight off of a stone, it's a party trick at that point, because you never know what is actually cutting the hair - it could very well be sharp bits of foil that are left on the edge.

If your stone is hard, it should be able to ultimately surpass the sharpness of a nani 12k on a good quality razor - as long as you let it settle in. The edge that the stone makes should be straighter right along the edge line, and less bitey feeling on your face.

So, don't sweat it comparing HHT until after it's stropped.

Ok. Thanks a lot for your advices guys.

Why do you care about the HHT if the purpose of the razor is to shave you, not pass a HHT?

The shave, is it better or worse? That's what matters. Also, is your nagura a tomonagura, or an "Asano" nagura? I can't recognize the stone by its color. The asano stones are coarser, and generally, not the best choice to finish an edge, the tomonagua are great.

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Originally Posted by holli4pirating

Why do you care about the HHT if the purpose of the razor is to shave you, not pass a HHT?

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I am new in this and I find HHT test as a good point to know where I am with this. Of course only shave is real test.

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Originally Posted by Vasilis

The shave, is it better or worse? That's what matters. Also, is your nagura a tomonagura, or an "Asano" nagura? I can't recognize the stone by its color. The asano stones are coarser, and generally, not the best choice to finish an edge, the tomonagua are great.

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Shave is similar, maybe little bit smoother with shoubudani.
It should be tomo nagura.

Can somebody let me know how to use shoubudani with tomo nagura correctly? How many slurry and how many passes on each phase after 8k?

I usually use light to moderate pressure with the tomo nagura to create a slurry that is noticeably lighter than milk. Slurry should be liquid and no noticeable thickening. I usually use 2x20 circles and ellipses followed by 40 x-strokes because byexperience that woks with most razors.

I can usually tell that the slurry gets smoother (breaks), at around 20-30 strokes, then I add 20-30 more at very light pressure. You can also tell the slurry gets smoother when the dilution is right, so thin the slurry until it feels smooth.

Cheers, Steve

I can't get the HHT to pass without stropping with my type 100. I don't know if the particles left behind after honing prevents it and stropping removes them or what, but try stropping before doing the HHT. I know I have my set of tests that let me know when I can give a razor a shave test, but each finisher acts differently so figuring out what each test tells you for each stone can be a PITA and once you dial it in for the most part things will get easier. As to what I do with mine I am still learning how to use it, but I usually start with a medium slurry and do circles and x-strokes for awhile until the stone begins to dry to allow the particles to break down and then I dunk my razor and add a few drops of water and do some more x-strokes 10-20 dunk my razor and repeat. I usually stop when I can barely notice any slurry in the water almost pure water. It usually takes quite a few dunks before I get to that stage. I am still testing whether clear water or very very diluting water is better, but just the stone with clear water doesn't seem to produce as good as an edge. Some razors though if they aren't quite there I will give them a few more laps with clear water and test again and it seems to work, but for the most part I tend to stay away from clear water. Each stone is different so you will need to learn yours and that is usually a never ending cycle with naturals. Enjoy the stone I know I enjoy mine.

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Originally Posted by davorvfr

Shave is similar, maybe little bit smoother with shoubudani.
It should be tomo nagura.

Can somebody let me know how to use shoubudani with tomo nagura correctly? How many slurry and how many passes on each phase after 8k?

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You don't have to use your stone after the 8k. You can use it after the 12k, the 4k or even the 1k. For the "correct" way to use your hone and slurry stone, well, experiment with it! That's the fun part of getting a new stone. You can start with somewhat thick slurry and dilute it, lighter after a fine stone, or without use of slurry at all. And, you should try all the above. Find out what works for you, and learn how to use your new stone through trial and error. You have a natural one without instructions on how to use it. Enjoy it!

Thanks guys. Should I consider to get Koma nagura or my tomo nagura is all I need?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by davorvfr

Shave is similar, maybe little bit smoother with shoubudani.
It should be tomo nagura.

Can somebody let me know how to use shoubudani with tomo nagura correctly? How many slurry and how many passes on each phase after 8k?

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Here are a couple vids that may help.

http://youtu.be/deapGwrzghk

http://youtu.be/nBeifcKyKqo

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Originally Posted by davorvfr

Thanks guys. Should I consider to get Koma nagura or my tomo nagura is all I need?

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Tomonagura is all you need. You can try the "one stone honing" with many types of nagura stones, but a good tomonagura can be both fast and fine. And since you have many synthetic stones, you don't need them anyway.

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Your 12k is a finisher. The Jnat your using is not going to increase the level of sharpness. In fact, I would suggest that it may step the edge back a little from that of the 12k. My suggestion is to go to the Jnat after 8k. See how you like the edge and decide if you want to use it or your 12k.

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Isnt that a finishing stone , a hard one . Am i mistaking , but i see that, the tomo is not asagi . Maybe the nagura isnt match with the stone and is coarser .
In your place ill try it with diamond nagura / light slurry /as Alex Gillmore does , after the 8 k and i will insist on plain watter and light strokes for more time . Maybe finishind with a few drops of liquid soap on it to see , where can this stone bring my edge .
But for me sharpness is essential part , and not getting the HHT is a serios .
I never had jnat but ill do this with every finishing stone ,to test his limits .

@ the OP: less is more in your case. Maybe after the Shoubudani the edge is smoother and glides over the hair. Microserrations after the 12K might catch the hanging hair and sever the hair by cutting and pulling it at the same time.

The first thing to try, considering what you do, and do not, have is to try the shoobie doobie without any slurry. Go from the 12k to the shoobie and see what that does for your edge. If your honing technique is good, it likely either will improve the edge or do nothing. It is possible that your nagura is degrading your 12k edge

Strop and shave after the Shobudani. You can use your HHT to make sure the edge is coming right off the 12k.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

The first thing to try, considering what you do, and do not, have is to try the shoobie doobie without any slurry. Go from the 12k to the shoobie and see what that does for your edge. If your honing technique is good, it likely either will improve the edge or do nothing. It is possible that your nagura is degrading your 12k edge

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Ditto that.

Clear water, no lapping for a while. That should give a very good sense of the base stone. No spurious nagurious putting scratchy cutting particles on the stone.

A good shoubu stone should be similar in fineness to a good chinese phig, but it should have a wider range of cut speeds in various states of use.

What did you mean , as saying ''good '' . Arent they all selected and good . I asc as im very intrested :hmmm:

Too many finishers, 2 of which are of completely unknown grit, very few Natural stones are higher than 12k

And using slurry to finish is an art form in itself with a long learning curve…

As said, pick one and learn it…

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Originally Posted by RusenBG

What did you mean , as saying ''good '' . Arent they all selected and good . I asc as im very intrested :hmmm:

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There are shoubu stones all over the map in terms of particle size, color, size, softness/hardness, and in feel. Some of them have scratchy particles (but the same is often true of other mine stones, even the most desirable mines like nakayama, okudo, etc).

Japanese naturals vary stone to stone. i've had three shoubus and they were all a little different. (actually, one wasn't a razor stone but it looked nice. It had a terrible feel on clear water, and left some random scratches). I sold it to knife people who won't be as particular, and took a loss.