Review of Wood Block Strop/Hone using Progressive Sandpaper for Bevel setting

Most would probably agree that proper Bevel setting is the key to getting a great shaving edge. I have learned the hard way that if the bevel isn't set properly you'll never get a proper shaving edge. About a year ago I bought this DLT Ultimate Block Strop/Hone for $29.95 DLT Ultimate Block Strop/Hone when I saw a video of a knife guy using it to sharpen knives. He was using different compounds, (black, green, white) on the leather sides but I thought it might work for setting the bevel on a straight razor using progressive sandpaper grits. Well, I have been using it for about 6 months now and it does a magnificent job on setting bevels. I no longer use my Norton 1K or india oil stones or DMTs. I just cut 2 inch sandpaper strips of wet/dry sandpaper of 500, 1000, 1500 and 2000 grit. Depending on what the edge looks like using a 60X magnifying scope/light, I will normally start with the 500 grit to take out chips, corrosion, etc. It only takes takes several minutes (4-5min) to get the edge completely smooth. Then I move to the 1000, then to the 1500, then finally the 2000 grit. By the time that I get the the 2000 grit the beveled set edge is really starting to polish up nicely. The bevel setting time is 20-30 minutes for a rough old Sheffield, less time for a blade in better shape. I then move on to my Belgian coticules and finally an Escher. Top it off with .5 micron chromium oxide on a balsa paddle then just strop it with a hanging latigo strop. HHT is no problem after using this process.

The block measures 8" x 2" and 3 of the 4 sides are covered in leather. Small wing nuts on both ends secure the sandpaper strips between the small block to the larger block. Not sure of the type of wood. You may have to occasionally readjust the wing nuts on each end to keep the sandpaper flat and in place. That is the only problem that I can report. Recommend using it on a rubber map to help keep it in place. I may add some rubber feet as well. It is a very simple block device and could be made very easily by a semi skilled woodworker. In smmary, I think it works great and makes it easier to put a proper bevel on a blade quickly. I do not plan on ever using a stone again to set a bevel.

Sandpaper is generally coarser than stones. 1000 grit sandpaper cuts faster and leave deeper scratches than a 1000 grit stone. The 500 sandpaper cuts like 200 grit stone. Too much metal removed. Still, sharpening with sandpaper on a hard surface is common for bigger blades produced in numbers. I'm not sure why.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vasilis

Sandpaper is generally coarser than stones. 1000 grit sandpaper cuts faster and leave deeper scratches than a 1000 grit stone. The 500 sandpaper cuts like 200 grit stone. Too much metal removed. Still, sharpening with sandpaper on a hard surface is common for bigger blades produced in numbers. I'm not sure why.

---

Agree completely. The 500 grit paper really removes metal fast. Scary fast! It cuts out those chips and burrs very quickly. It doesn't get much time on the 500 grit paper. Each of the subsequent grades remove the scratches, then begins to polishes it, prepping it nicely for stonework to shapen the edge. Thanks for your input.

Aren't you convexing the bevels with leather backed sand paper and the back honing stroke? I mean that is a way to convex knife bevels.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mainaman

Aren't you convexing the bevels with leather backed sand paper and the back honing stroke? I mean that is a way to convex knife bevels.

---

Good point. I didn't realize that could happen as a result. I haven't noticed any convexing in the blades I've honed. I have used the X stoke primarly and it seems to be straight. I will watch for that. Thank you very much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ajkenne

Good point. I didn't realize that could happen as a result. I haven't noticed any convexing in the blades I've honed. I have used the X stoke primarly and it seems to be straight. I will watch for that. Thank you very much.

---

It might be hard to tell with such narrow bevels. Even with knives it requires pretty thick geometry to be able to tell the bevels were convexed.

Yes you are convexing the bevel, just use a 3in piece of glass and water to hold the wet & dry. It will hold it to the glass fine.
You can lap the glass plate with 320 wet and dry or a diamond plate fairly easily.

It does work and well for limited and economical solution, but is a hassle for maintaining or restoring many razors.

As said it is aggressive and can cause chipping at finish.

This comes up in various iterations in woodworking. Eventually, a user with experience starts to want more specific results, and they want a feel from their stone - something that's a bit harder to get from films, etc.

I agree with the above comments about dubbing the edge, the paper has to be super tightly down (which means adhesive) to avoid dubbing. Most paper is silicon carbide (in the finer grits) until you get to the really small lapping film particles, and silicon carbide is a bit harsh on a razor edge.

It can work, but it wouldn't be my first choice.

If I were really on a tight budget, I'd do a three step with two pieces of MDF and the following:

King 800 or 1000 for bevel sets, Autosol polish to follow (3 micron aluminum oxide - would take a little longer, but would work) on MDF, green chrome with mineral (baby oil would be fine) mixed in. The latter two would necessitate a trailing motion, but the strop can get rid of the effect of that after the last step.

MDF is CHEAP as long as you can cut it, and I'd cut it into 8x2 strips. It would get hollow a tiny bit in the length over time but it can be sanded flat, and it wouldn't dub. The total cost for that should be about $40. You can literally flatten a king 800 on a concrete block.

I remember seeing a wooden jig for sharpening microtome razors that worked on the same principle except that the razor was held tight on a wooden block with slide rails set in it and a wooden block with varying grades of sandpaper was slid over the bevel to sharpen it. It was from a scientific journal, so they must have been quite happy with the edge produced. Mind you, they were slicing up plants and various other dead things - they couid not comment on how smooth the edge was, of course! :)

I also had an old multi-part strop, say 1920s - 1940s vintage, probably made by 'Scorcher' which consisted of about 12 long strips of strop-shaped sandpaper for touching-up the edge. Its surface was very fine - flower of emery or some such, and you tore off a strip when it was spent. It was gathered together like a normal strop of the time at the top and even had a handle shape cut into the strips at the bottom. Never did try to sharpen a razor with it - it looked like it might really mess-up a bevel.

Regards,
Neil

I have used wet-dry sandpaper to hone out frowns and chips. I think it was 1500 grit.

A wet piece of copy paper under a piece of film will contact only the bottom 1/3 of a bevel from the edge. So leather, thicker and softer will flex much more convexing the bevel.

Using a high grit film you can easily see where contact is made, with high grit final finish film, it is not a problem, in fact can be a good thing as you are only doing a few laps on very high git.

But at a low grit, the bevel becomes convex early on and you may not be honing all the way to the edge with subsequent grits in progression. Ink will quickly tell you and a hard flat substrate eliminates the issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Euclid440

A wet piece of copy paper under a piece of film will contact only the bottom 1/3 of a bevel from the edge. So leather, thicker and softer will flex much more convexing the bevel.

Using a high grit film you can easily see where contact is made, with high grit final finish film, it is not a problem, in fact can be a good thing as you are only doing a few laps on very high git.

But at a low grit, the bevel becomes convex early on and you may not be honing all the way to the edge with subsequent grits in progression. Ink will quickly tell you and a hard flat substrate eliminates the issue.

---

Timing is everything. I was just honing two old Wade & Butchers when I read your post. I had just finished a progression using 1000, 1500, then finally a 2000 grit. Both were cutting arm hair at 1000, and TNT at 1500. 2000 was looking even better. After reading your post I then tried the ink test to see if the honing was getting to the edge. Both SRs were in fact getting to the edge as the ink disappeared nicely with two passes.

I am reading all the posts on "convexing" the edge and I just don't see it so far. The reason may be that the leather is hard and glued down firmly to the wood. Anyway, I must be doing something right despite using this unorthodox process as I am able to get a bevel and the final shave ready edge, after the coticules, balsa, and latigo leather stropping. I will stay open to the convexing issue and I thank all those who has commented. "Proof is in the pudding" or is it ....."you can lead a horse to water.....drink".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ajkenne

Timing is everything. I was just honing two old Wade & Butchers when I read your post. I had just finished a progression using 1000, 1500, then finally a 2000 grit. Both were cutting arm hair at 1000, and TNT at 1500. 2000 was looking even better. After reading your post I then tried the ink test to see if the honing was getting to the edge. Both SRs were in fact getting to the edge as the ink disappeared nicely with two passes.

I am reading all the posts on "convexing" the edge and I just don't see it so far. The reason may be that the leather is hard and glued down firmly to the wood. Anyway, I must be doing something right despite using this unorthodox process as I am able to get a bevel and the final shave ready edge, after the coticules, balsa, and latigo leather stropping. I will stay open to the convexing issue and I thank all those who has commented. "Proof is in the pudding" or is it ....."you can lead a horse to water.....drink".

---

I may have have overstated my success. After I posted, I went back and looked at the edge throught the scope and did find some ink on the tip portion of one of the razors. The other razor's edge looked good. Will need to do a shave test with both and feel the result. Don't anyone go out and buy this gizmo just yet. I may have jumped the gun on my previous post. I'll have do more work on this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ajkenne

I may have have overstated my success. After I posted, I went back and looked at the edge throught the scope and did find some ink on the tip portion of one of the razors. The other razor's edge looked good. Will need to do a shave test with both and feel the result. Don't anyone go out and buy this gizmo just yet. I may have jumped the gun on my previous post. I'll have do more work on this.

---

If you are doing back stroke honing, you will always convex the edge no matter what.
Been sharpening knives on some really hard natural stones and the bevel always convexes.

People use microfilm on glass or granite but with regular forward stroke, that works for razors.

Thanks mainaman. I will try some microfilm on glass/granite. Do you have a source?

I've never used it but have seen this, they also have diamond lapping film in small sheets:

3M Micro-Abrasives for Sharpening

Thorlabs.com is the best source for lapping film, comes in 9x13 in sheets. Cut into 3 in sheets with a paper cutter, you will get 4 pieces from a sheet, so it is about 35 cents per piece.

Buy the AO not the Diamond. Performance is the same, but cost is 11x more. You can get 10-20 honings from each piece of AO.

You only need the 3, & 1um, if you start from a 1k bevel set, the .03 is over kill for me, but you may want to try it. Finish on film over a piece of wet copy paper.

There are tons of threads on using film, it works well, it is aggressive, leaves a very straight edge that can be harsh with too many laps, too much pressure or super fine grits, .03um. YMMV.

You can buy a 3X12 in glass tile from lowes for 5-7 bucks, lap with 320 w/d or 300 diamond plate.

Thanks much to Hart and Euclid440 for those sources. I will get some and try it out. Super!

Arent those whatter sandpapers . Why you dont use watter . Its better i started honing like that .

It is wet/dry sandpaper. I used it without water with some success. Others on this forum have encouraged me to use the 3M Aluminum Oxide lapping film and have made my first purchase which will arrive late this week. I have researched this product and watched several videos and believe this method is superior to what I have been using.

You will imminently buy stones after , but for the begining for a few razors maintain is ok . It is a matter the edge you put on the razor and if you enjoy it .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RusenBG

You will imminently buy stones after , but for the begining for a few razors maintain is ok . It is a matter the edge you put on the razor and if you enjoy it .

---

I am trying out this newer technology to see how I like the bevel setting compared to my stones. I have a set or Nortons for that but am not totally satisfied with the Nortons. I do, however, like my four belgium coticules and two eschers. They are great sharpencers and finishers. I hope the 3M lapping film will work as well as others have described it and they are shown on youTube videos. Just looking to get a nice shaving edge, more consistantly. I undestand that some of this may be my technique. Will just have to see how this goes with the 3M lapping film.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DaveW

This comes up in various iterations in woodworking. Eventually, a user with experience starts to want more specific results, and they want a feel from their stone - something that's a bit harder to get from films, etc.

I agree with the above comments about dubbing the edge, the paper has to be super tightly down (which means adhesive) to avoid dubbing. Most paper is silicon carbide (in the finer grits) until you get to the really small lapping film particles, and silicon carbide is a bit harsh on a razor edge.

It can work, but it wouldn't be my first choice.

If I were really on a tight budget, I'd do a three step with two pieces of MDF and the following:

King 800 or 1000 for bevel sets, Autosol polish to follow (3 micron aluminum oxide - would take a little longer, but would work) on MDF, green chrome with mineral (baby oil would be fine) mixed in. The latter two would necessitate a trailing motion, but the strop can get rid of the effect of that after the last step.

MDF is CHEAP as long as you can cut it, and I'd cut it into 8x2 strips. It would get hollow a tiny bit in the length over time but it can be sanded flat, and it wouldn't dub. The total cost for that should be about $40. You can literally flatten a king 800 on a concrete block.

---

I out of curiosity did that Dave using a king 800/4000 to set the bevel and do the initial stria removal , I used diamond lapping past in 3.5 micron and 1.0 micron at the finish. The Shave this morning was very close with no tugging nor weepers.makes a nice cheap set up for the monetarily limited imo.cheers .

I think for giggles, I might try this, too. I've done it on tools (just out of curiosity), but didn't like it because autosol leaves a film on the tools (which comes off on the wood if it's on the back of a chisel).

Might be interesting with a razor, though I'll try the batch I suggested as I have all of the components (I guess I have the diamonds, too, but whipping them out in the shop causes problems if they get loose).

That the edge is convexed, is not an issue and actually a plus, the edge should be thicker and stronger.

But convexing by flexing the substrate, varying of pressure, is problematic, because it is not repeatable. Each lap and grit will convex at a different rate.

Simply using a solid, flat substrate e.g. glass plate will eliminate the flex and convexing, delivering a uniform repeatable angle and edge.

Film can produce a very uniform, straight edge because of the super uniform grit, (no binder). It is excellent for hard, chippy steels.