Thread: Ebay Gamble

Originally Posted by DaveW

Older stones are always broken in, and stones well used are broken in. Finishing a razor on a brand new ark stone that was cut with a diamond saw and then lapped with coarse silica on a rotary lap or something else isn't a great idea.

I don't know where you might have gotten your stones that were cut so poorly, but my stones came flat , smooth, and ready to use. Get this! They also have 90% sharp corners this helped my eyes determine that they were cut well and flat. I didn't put those cuts on my stones either. Look at your new stone , feel of it , if there is no apparent damage or chips use it . Use a soft arkie for your course stone work and the black and trans for finer work. I am putting a couple of pictures of a translucent stone I use with my straight razors . I have never chiseled or axed the stone in any way. I used a straight razor on this stone. I bet you could hone a thousand straight razors on this stone and not ever remove enough of the stone to easily measure. Also please take my word for it they are smooth, and to think this stone or the others stones I own every needed anything done to them is for me laughable. One picture has no magnification the other is 220x .

I have bought stones from:
* Halls (not flat, fairly coarse - I heard they have improved to at least hit or miss on the flatness, but their prices have gone up, too)
* Dan's (the only stones that are new that are really ready for razor use - still are better after they've been used for a while)
* Norton (both black and multiple trans. Reasonably flat, but coarse cutting when new)
* Natural Whetstone (black trans, "hard" - both came off of a saw or a coarse lap, but were good stones once broken in)
* (I guess if we're talking about new stones, add some guy on ebay a couple of years ago who sold a bunch of multicolored dense novaculite stones that were as dense as a trans, but many were not translucent)

I have also bought vintage trans stones (never been lucky enough to find a vintage norton black reasonable, but a lot of those are gray translucent stones and not similar to something like a dan's or new norton black stone).

And about two dozen washitas.

Other than the halls stone, only the vintage stones have been appreciably out of flat (from use), and some are heavily used but not very far out of flat - I guess I haven't seen a well used perfectly flat vintage stone.

Of all of the new stones, the nortons could be used in a pinch, the dan's can be used right away (still benefit from surface treatment if you're looking for finish), and the natural whetstone stones were aggressive (all of the one's I've gotten from them) and would not create a finished edge on a razor.

Where is the stone from that you have above? What retailer?
When all of the above are broken in, it is not loading that is making them cut finely - you would see that on a trans stone, it's hard to hide. It's dulling of the particles, which are durable but not hard.

That is a tough question the retailers. I am not really avoiding the question but I can't really answer it well because times have changed. Do you remember when Gibson, sears, and stores like that sold guns and fishing supplies? There was no Dan's and other things you can find now days with the help of the internet. I have purchased from Dan's and others on the internet. My stones have never been lapped or burnish with a chisel or anything like that ever. My grandfather and my dad would have back handed the mess out of me if they would have seen something like that taking place. I wasn't taught to do things that way. Every thing had it's purpose.

Originally Posted by AlienEdge

That is a tough question the retailers. I am not really avoiding the question but I can't really answer it well because times have changed. Do you remember when Gibson, sears, and stores like that sold guns and fishing supplies? There was no Dan's and other things you can find now days with the help of the internet. I have purchased from Dan's and others on the internet. My stones have never been lapped or burnish with a chisel or anything like that ever. My grandfather and my dad would have back handed the mess out of me if they would have seen something like that taking place. I wasn't taught to do things that way. Every thing had it's purpose.

I can't imagine why anyone would get in trouble for sharpening a chisel or lapping the back of a chisel on an arkansas stone. Sharpening a quality hunting knife would do the same thing, though.

I'm only 40 years old (that may seem old to some, I guess). When I was a kid, every catalog had guns in it (sears, etc), and department stores always had a large sporting goods section of guns and fishing gear. They put it in the back to make you walk past all of their other trash since they knew it was desirable and a lot of the other crap household goods...not so much.

I used to circle the guns I wanted in the sears catalog, but nobody ever got me one for Christmas! Of course, I was probably 8 or 10 years old and I circled the shotguns and rifles rather than the BB guns.

It's likely that you don't remember that the first several sharpenings on those stones you bought decades ago were a little stronger cutting than the rest.

So, if you have not burnished them, how do you know it would not improve them.

Every new honer, thinks they are getting the best edges off their stones, yet everyone will tell you, a year or two later, that their edges and shaves are infinitely better.

If you are happy with your edges, great. Your experience is not the norm.

Originally Posted by Euclid440

So, if you have not burnished them, how do you know it would not improve them.

Every new honer, thinks they are getting the best edges off their stones, yet everyone will tell you, a year or two later, that their edges and shaves are infinitely better.

If you are happy with your edges, great. Your experience is not the norm.

Well I am not a new honer. Maybe new to the site. I know because it will stop it from cutting fast.

Each Arkansas stone has a purpose picking the right stone for the job will keep you from having to alter it .

Maybe some one should open a new thread called right way wrong way because I feel like we have hijacked this poor guys thread.

Originally Posted by AlienEdge

Maybe some one should open a new thread called right way wrong way because I feel like we have hijacked this poor guys thread.

Reminds me of woodworking forums. At some point, we're just looking to shave and do it comfortably, and hopefully we get far enough along that we're not looking to hone all the time (because it wastes the razor and doesn't make a shave any better, or even as good, as a razor well kept on linen and leather).

I've used stones that I've lapped flat (not arks, I guess), and arks that I have deadened by sharpening tools on them for a little bit - but they are not perfectly flat, just very flat. Once the linen hits the razor's edge a couple of times, I can't tell the difference between any of them - the linen improves the edge and then it's the linen's edge and not the stone.

The one thing that I think is lost on this forum is the art of maintaining an edge with linen and leather and never actually removing it with a stone, but instead only using the stone to keep the bevel geometry above the edge from getting too fat.

Originally Posted by DaveW

Reminds me of woodworking forums. At some point, we're just looking to shave and do it comfortably, and hopefully we get far enough along that we're not looking to hone all the time (because it wastes the razor and doesn't make a shave any better, or even as good, as a razor well kept on linen and leather).

I've used stones that I've lapped flat (not arks, I guess), and arks that I have deadened by sharpening tools on them for a little bit - but they are not perfectly flat, just very flat. Once the linen hits the razor's edge a couple of times, I can't tell the difference between any of them - the linen improves the edge and then it's the linen's edge and not the stone.

The one thing that I think is lost on this forum is the art of maintaining an edge with linen and leather and never actually removing it with a stone, but instead only using the stone to keep the bevel geometry above the edge from getting too fat.

I am not so sure we are in a different boat . I agree with what you are saying except that you shouldn't use a new stone with a straight razor . I have and I would again. I believe they are good to go.